[R-sig-ME] Course: Introduction to Linear Mixed Effects Models and GLMM with R-INLA

[John Poe]

I think it's a little bit pedantic to criticize the flyer here since I
assume that the distinction between nested and cross classified grouping
structures is made pretty clear in the class itself.

I haven't seen the course material obviously so that's an assumption on my
part given how I teach it. I do spend a lot of time on it whenever I teach
mixed effects models because it is an important point of confusion for
people. I tend to use either "clustered" or the term "grouping structure"
as generic and differentiate between nested, crossed, and multiple
membership personally. So i understand the point Mollie and Henrik are
making but it might be unfair to expect that level of nuance in a flyer?







On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 10:51 AM Henrik Singmann <singmann using gmail.com> wrote:

> But isn't that exactly Mollie's point? You write "Nested data means
> multiple observations from the same [unit of observation]". And then she
> gave an example where you can have multiple observations from the same unit
> of observation without the data being nested.
>
> I also completely agree with her criticism that this terminology is
> critical to get right. When I teach mixed models one of the things that
> always comes up is that people misunderstand the concept of nested factors:
> A factor A is nested in another factor B if certain levels of A only appear
> with certain levels of B and not with all levels of B (the latter would be
> called crossed). In other words, whether or not we have repeated measures
> or multiple observations is unrelated to whether or not there exists
> nesting in the data.
>
> Maybe it would make more sense to use "clustered" in that context instead
> of "nested".
>
>
> Am Do., 11. Juni 2020 um 16:20 Uhr schrieb Highland Statistics Ltd <
> highstat using highstat.com>:
>
> >
> > On 11/06/2020 14:58, Mollie Brooks wrote:
> > > The flyer says "Nested data means multiple observations from the same
> > > animal, site, area, nest, patient, hospital, vessel,
> > > lake, hive, transect, etc.", but this doesn’t agree with my
> > > understanding
> > > (
> >
> https://bbolker.github.io/mixedmodels-misc/glmmFAQ.html#nested-or-crossed).
> What
> >
> > > if animals move from one site to another, or patients visit multiple
> > > hospitals.
> >
> > Then it is not nested anymore.
> >
> >
> > > I encounter a lot of scientists who have a misconception of the
> > > meaning of nested data, so it would be good to be careful when
> > > teaching the terminology. Does R-INLA require random effects to be
> > > nested?
> >
> > No. They can even be spatially correlated....or temporally correlated.
> >
> > Alain
> >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Mollie
> > >
> > >> On 11Jun 2020, at 14:40, Highland Statistics Ltd
> > >> <highstat using highstat.com <mailto:highstat using highstat.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> We would like to announce the following online statistics course:
> > >>
> > >> Introduction to Linear Mixed Effects Models and GLMM with R-INLA
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> This is an on-demand course with around 35-40 videos (each is 15-60
> > >> minutes) with live (optional) Zoom summary sessions scheduled in 2
> > >> different time zones:
> > >>
> > >>  * Time zone 1: 09.00-11.00 British Summer Time.
> > >>  * Time zone 2: 19.00-21.00 British Summer Time.
> > >>
> > >> The course represents around 40 hours of work.
> > >>
> > >> The course fee includes an (optional) 1-hour face-to-face video chat
> > >> with one or both instructors (you can discuss your own data).
> > >>
> > >> Starting date: 22 June
> > >>
> > >> Flyer:
> > >>
> > http://highstat.com/Courses/Flyers/2020/Flyer2020_06_GLMMINLA_Online.pdf
> > >>
> > >> Website: http://highstat.com/index.php/courses-upcoming
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Kind regards,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Alain Zuur
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >> Dr. Alain F. Zuur
> > >> Highland Statistics Ltd.
> > >> 9 St Clair Wynd
> > >> AB41 6DZ Newburgh, UK
> > >> Email:highstat using highstat.com
> > >> URL:www.highstat.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> R-sig-mixed-models using r-project.org mailing list
> > >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models
> > >
> > --
> >
> > Dr. Alain F. Zuur
> > Highland Statistics Ltd.
> > 9 St Clair Wynd
> > AB41 6DZ Newburgh, UK
> > Email: highstat using highstat.com
> > URL:   www.highstat.com
> >
> >
> >         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > R-sig-mixed-models using r-project.org mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models
> >
>
>
> --
> Dr. Henrik Singmann
> Assistant Professor, Department of Psychology
> University of Warwick, UK
> http://singmann.org
>
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>
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