[R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis

Jeff Newmiller jdnewm|| @end|ng |rom dcn@d@v|@@c@@u@
Sun Jun 28 20:28:11 CEST 2020


Data are not copyrightable. As long as you do not use the exact phrases from the book you should be okay. But if you don't agree, then you should not proceed, and complaining here is not going to fix this.

On June 28, 2020 11:22:41 AM PDT, Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu> wrote:
>That's where the copyright violation comes in.  Copying descriptions
>from
>the book is clear copyright violation unless it is so minimal as to be
>"fair use" and I have no idea where that line is.  Even Alan may not be
>free to add such descriptions.  I have no idea what his contract with
>Wiley
>says.
>
>So like I said in my original posting, good idea in an alternative
>universe
>where copyright law does not exist.
>
>On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 1:13 PM Jeff Newmiller
><jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us>
>wrote:
>
>> Just describe the nature of the data sets literally as though the
>book was
>> inaccessible. They are not asking you to describe how one should
>analyze
>> the the data, so there really shouldn't be any conflict with the book
>> content that your agreement with the author has not already resolved.
>>
>> If you feel you are being held to a higher standard than others have
>> been... that is life. As a user of packages I agree with the CRAN
>that
>> package documention should be usable on its own.
>>
>> On June 28, 2020 10:58:15 AM PDT, Charles Geyer
><charlie using stat.umn.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >CRAN did not just ask for an expanded Description field.  They
>> >instructed
>> >"Tell the users what the datasets are about and what they contain so
>> >they
>> >can use them even when they haven't read your book".  AFAIK no CRAN
>> >package
>> >that goes with a book satisfies that.
>> >
>> >On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:52 PM Max Turgeon
><Max.Turgeon using umanitoba.ca>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Fair enough. But CRAN is clearly asking for a more detailed
>> >Description
>> >> field. I simply offered one suggestion for expanding it. Keep in
>mind
>> >> that users will typically see the DESCRIPTION file first, and not
>the
>> >help
>> >> pages.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Max Turgeon
>> >> Assistant Professor
>> >> Department of Statistics
>> >> Department of Computer Science
>> >> University of Manitoba
>> >> maxturgeon.ca
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >> *From:* Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu>
>> >> *Sent:* June 28, 2020 12:48:06 PM
>> >> *To:* Max Turgeon
>> >> *Cc:* R Package Development
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis
>> >>
>> >> *Caution:* This message was sent from outside the University of
>> >Manitoba.
>> >> The link to Alan's web site is on every help page (in the source
>> >> section).  That's where the source is supposed to be.
>> >>
>> >> I have no problem with adding the source to the DESCRIPTION file,
>but
>> >that
>> >> is not what CRAN asked me to do.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Max Turgeon
>> ><Max.Turgeon using umanitoba.ca>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> For what it's worth, I'd be inclined to interpreting CRAN's
>response
>> >>> *very* literally, i.e. your Description field is not descriptive
>> >enough.
>> >>> According to what I can see in the Github repo, you only have
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Datasets used in the book Categorical Data Analysis by Agresti
>but
>> >not
>> >>> printed in the book."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Which is not much more than what the Title field says. One
>glaring
>> >>> omission (IMO) from the Description field is any mention of
>> >Agresti's
>> >>> website, where the data comes from.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> In contrast, looking at the "woolridge" package, I can see from
>the
>> >>> Description field that it contains 111 datasets (well, that's in
>the
>> >Title
>> >>> field), it's about econometrics, and the purpose of the package
>is
>> >to make
>> >>> it easier for students to work with these datasets.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Max Turgeon
>> >>> Assistant Professor
>> >>> Department of Statistics
>> >>> Department of Computer Science
>> >>> University of Manitoba
>> >>> maxturgeon.ca
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------
>> >>> *From:* R-package-devel <r-package-devel-bounces using r-project.org>
>on
>> >>> behalf of Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu>
>> >>> *Sent:* June 28, 2020 11:38 AM
>> >>> *To:* Neal Fultz
>> >>> *Cc:* R Package Development
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis
>> >>>
>> >>> ********************************************************
>> >>> Caution: This message was sent from outside the University of
>> >Manitoba.
>> >>> ********************************************************
>> >>>
>> >>> Actually the wooldridge package does not seem to satisfy any of
>the
>> >>> specific requests CRAN asked me for.  I have checked several
>other
>> >CRAN
>> >>> packages for textbooks and they don't seem to satisfy those
>> >requirements
>> >>> either.  So this seems to be a new idea from CRAN.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM Neal Fultz <nfultz using gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > I'm not sure exactly what cran is asking for, but the
>wooldridge
>> >>> > package is a good example of a text book data set package, so
>> >maybe
>> >>> > you can use the same format they did.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wooldridge/index.html
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Best,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Neal
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 9:08 AM Charles Geyer
>> ><charlie using stat.umn.edu>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > I have a package that has the datasets for Categorical Data
>> >Analysis
>> >>> by
>> >>> > > Agresti that do not appear in the book.  The whole package is
>a
>> >github
>> >>> > repo
>> >>> > > https://github.com/cjgeyer/CatDataAnalysis.  All of the data
>> >were
>> >>> > > translated mechanically using the R script foo.R included in
>the
>> >repo
>> >>> > (but
>> >>> > > not in the package) from Agresti's web site
>> >>> > > http://www.stat.ufl.edu/~aa/cda/data.html.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This package seems to be a useful service to students and
>> >teachers.
>> >>> The
>> >>> > > data
>> >>> > > are much simpler to use with this package than trying to get
>the
>> >data
>> >>> > from
>> >>> > > Agresti's web page (foo.R has 277 lines of code).
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > When I submitted the package to CRAN, I got the following
>> >response.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > > The Description field of the DESCRIPTION file is intended
>to
>> >be a
>> >>> (one
>> >>> > > > paragraph) description of what the package does and why it
>may
>> >be
>> >>> > > > useful. Please elaborate. Tell the users what the datasets
>are
>> >about
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > > > what they contain so they can use them even when they
>haven't
>> >read
>> >>> your
>> >>> > > > book.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > > Please fix and resubmit, and document what was changed in
>the
>> >>> > submission
>> >>> > > > comments.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > In an alternate universe without copyright law this seems a
>> >reasonable
>> >>> > > request.  In this universe it seems to be asking for trouble.
> I
>> >know
>> >>> > about
>> >>> > > fair use, but I am not a lawyer and do not want to walk the
>> >borderline
>> >>> > > between fair use and copyright violation.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > The package as it is seems OK because it comes from the
>author's
>> >>> public
>> >>> > web
>> >>> > > site and these data were never in the book.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Please note that I made Alan Agresti (with his acquiescence)
>the
>> >>> author
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > > the package because it is his book and his data, but I (or
>> >rather
>> >>> foo.R)
>> >>> > > did all the work.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > I replied to cran.r-project.org, but that was apparently sent
>to
>> >>> > /dev/null.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This book is IMHO the authoritative textbook on the subject.
>> >Amazon
>> >>> > sales
>> >>> > > rank agrees.  The book is used for many courses.  So this
>> >package
>> >>> would
>> >>> > be
>> >>> > > very helpful as is to many students and teachers.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > So what to do?  Is there any way to get this package on CRAN?
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > --
>> >>> > > Charles Geyer
>> >>> > > Professor, School of Statistics
>> >>> > > Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
>> >>> > > University of Minnesota
>> >>> > > charlie using stat.umn.edu
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > ______________________________________________
>> >>> > > R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>> >>> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Charles Geyer
>> >>> Professor, School of Statistics
>> >>> Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
>> >>> University of Minnesota
>> >>> charlie using stat.umn.edu
>> >>>
>> >>>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________
>> >>> R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>> >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Charles Geyer
>> >> Professor, School of Statistics
>> >> Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
>> >> University of Minnesota
>> >> charlie using stat.umn.edu
>> >>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
>>

-- 
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.



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