[R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis

Sun Jun 28 20:22:41 CEST 2020

That's where the copyright violation comes in.  Copying descriptions from
the book is clear copyright violation unless it is so minimal as to be
"fair use" and I have no idea where that line is.  Even Alan may not be
free to add such descriptions.  I have no idea what his contract with Wiley
says.

So like I said in my original posting, good idea in an alternative universe
where copyright law does not exist.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 1:13 PM Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us>
wrote:

> Just describe the nature of the data sets literally as though the book was
> inaccessible. They are not asking you to describe how one should analyze
> the the data, so there really shouldn't be any conflict with the book
> content that your agreement with the author has not already resolved.
>
> If you feel you are being held to a higher standard than others have
> been... that is life. As a user of packages I agree with the CRAN that
> package documention should be usable on its own.
>
> On June 28, 2020 10:58:15 AM PDT, Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu>
> wrote:
> >CRAN did not just ask for an expanded Description field.  They
> >instructed
> >"Tell the users what the datasets are about and what they contain so
> >they
> >can use them even when they haven't read your book".  AFAIK no CRAN
> >package
> >that goes with a book satisfies that.
> >
> >On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:52 PM Max Turgeon <Max.Turgeon using umanitoba.ca>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Fair enough. But CRAN is clearly asking for a more detailed
> >Description
> >> field. I simply offered one suggestion for expanding it. Keep in mind
> >> that users will typically see the DESCRIPTION file first, and not the
> >help
> >> pages.
> >>
> >>
> >> Max Turgeon
> >> Assistant Professor
> >> Department of Statistics
> >> Department of Computer Science
> >> University of Manitoba
> >> maxturgeon.ca
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From:* Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu>
> >> *Sent:* June 28, 2020 12:48:06 PM
> >> *To:* Max Turgeon
> >> *Cc:* R Package Development
> >> *Subject:* Re: [R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis
> >>
> >> *Caution:* This message was sent from outside the University of
> >Manitoba.
> >> The link to Alan's web site is on every help page (in the source
> >> section).  That's where the source is supposed to be.
> >>
> >> I have no problem with adding the source to the DESCRIPTION file, but
> >that
> >> is not what CRAN asked me to do.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Max Turgeon
> ><Max.Turgeon using umanitoba.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> For what it's worth, I'd be inclined to interpreting CRAN's response
> >>> *very* literally, i.e. your Description field is not descriptive
> >enough.
> >>> According to what I can see in the Github repo, you only have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Datasets used in the book Categorical Data Analysis by Agresti but
> >not
> >>> printed in the book."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Which is not much more than what the Title field says. One glaring
> >>> omission (IMO) from the Description field is any mention of
> >Agresti's
> >>> website, where the data comes from.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In contrast, looking at the "woolridge" package, I can see from the
> >>> Description field that it contains 111 datasets (well, that's in the
> >Title
> >>> field), it's about econometrics, and the purpose of the package is
> >to make
> >>> it easier for students to work with these datasets.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Max Turgeon
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Statistics
> >>> Department of Computer Science
> >>> University of Manitoba
> >>> maxturgeon.ca
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From:* R-package-devel <r-package-devel-bounces using r-project.org> on
> >>> behalf of Charles Geyer <charlie using stat.umn.edu>
> >>> *Sent:* June 28, 2020 11:38 AM
> >>> *To:* Neal Fultz
> >>> *Cc:* R Package Development
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [R-pkg-devel] package CatDataAnalysis
> >>>
> >>> ********************************************************
> >>> Caution: This message was sent from outside the University of
> >Manitoba.
> >>> ********************************************************
> >>>
> >>> Actually the wooldridge package does not seem to satisfy any of the
> >>> specific requests CRAN asked me for.  I have checked several other
> >CRAN
> >>> packages for textbooks and they don't seem to satisfy those
> >requirements
> >>> either.  So this seems to be a new idea from CRAN.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 11:32 AM Neal Fultz <nfultz using gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > I'm not sure exactly what cran is asking for, but the wooldridge
> >>> > package is a good example of a text book data set package, so
> >maybe
> >>> > you can use the same format they did.
> >>> >
> >>> > https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/wooldridge/index.html
> >>> >
> >>> > Best,
> >>> >
> >>> > Neal
> >>> >
> >>> > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 9:08 AM Charles Geyer
> ><charlie using stat.umn.edu>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I have a package that has the datasets for Categorical Data
> >Analysis
> >>> by
> >>> > > Agresti that do not appear in the book.  The whole package is a
> >github
> >>> > repo
> >>> > > https://github.com/cjgeyer/CatDataAnalysis.  All of the data
> >were
> >>> > > translated mechanically using the R script foo.R included in the
> >repo
> >>> > (but
> >>> > > not in the package) from Agresti's web site
> >>> > > http://www.stat.ufl.edu/~aa/cda/data.html.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > This package seems to be a useful service to students and
> >teachers.
> >>> The
> >>> > > data
> >>> > > are much simpler to use with this package than trying to get the
> >data
> >>> > from
> >>> > > Agresti's web page (foo.R has 277 lines of code).
> >>> > >
> >>> > > When I submitted the package to CRAN, I got the following
> >response.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > The Description field of the DESCRIPTION file is intended to
> >be a
> >>> (one
> >>> > > > paragraph) description of what the package does and why it may
> >be
> >>> > > > useful. Please elaborate. Tell the users what the datasets are
> >about
> >>> > and
> >>> > > > what they contain so they can use them even when they haven't
> >read
> >>> your
> >>> > > > book.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > Please fix and resubmit, and document what was changed in the
> >>> > submission
> >>> > > > comments.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > In an alternate universe without copyright law this seems a
> >reasonable
> >>> > > request.  In this universe it seems to be asking for trouble.  I
> >know
> >>> > about
> >>> > > fair use, but I am not a lawyer and do not want to walk the
> >borderline
> >>> > > between fair use and copyright violation.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > The package as it is seems OK because it comes from the author's
> >>> public
> >>> > web
> >>> > > site and these data were never in the book.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Please note that I made Alan Agresti (with his acquiescence) the
> >>> author
> >>> > of
> >>> > > the package because it is his book and his data, but I (or
> >rather
> >>> foo.R)
> >>> > > did all the work.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I replied to cran.r-project.org, but that was apparently sent to
> >>> > /dev/null.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > This book is IMHO the authoritative textbook on the subject.
> >Amazon
> >>> > sales
> >>> > > rank agrees.  The book is used for many courses.  So this
> >package
> >>> would
> >>> > be
> >>> > > very helpful as is to many students and teachers.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > So what to do?  Is there any way to get this package on CRAN?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > > Charles Geyer
> >>> > > Professor, School of Statistics
> >>> > > Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
> >>> > > University of Minnesota
> >>> > > charlie using stat.umn.edu
> >>> > >
> >>> > >         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ______________________________________________
> >>> > > R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
> >>> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Charles Geyer
> >>> Professor, School of Statistics
> >>> Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
> >>> University of Minnesota
> >>> charlie using stat.umn.edu
> >>>
> >>>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________
> >>> R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
> >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Charles Geyer
> >> Professor, School of Statistics
> >> Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
> >> University of Minnesota
> >> charlie using stat.umn.edu
> >>
>
> --
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
>

-- 
Charles Geyer
Professor, School of Statistics
Resident Fellow, Minnesota Center for Philosophy of Science
University of Minnesota
charlie using stat.umn.edu

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