[R-meta] Question about function reporter()

Gabriel Cotlier g@b|k|m01 @end|ng |rom gm@||@com
Fri Jun 16 09:08:25 CEST 2023


Wolfgang : very helpful and nourishing knowledge and guidance about the
function rma.mv() potential and complexity, thanks a lot for the
Yes indeed, maybe in the "*longue durée"** --or not so much-- *future time
we will be more worried about bigger threats AI technology can pose to us

Anyway, It become an interesting participative discussion afterwards.

Maybe, I should apologize due to the lack of specificity or rugurosity in
my question, since I was only thinking --but did not write it--in my
particular case, mainly of an rma.rm() function with the simplest the
possible "random" arguments rather than the more the complex nested
random effect models, such as for instance:

data_1 <- rma.mv(yi = yi,
                     V = vi,
                     mods = ~Type - 1,
                     random = ~1 | alloc,
                     data = dat)

where the "alloc" variable refers just whether the correlation ( yi ) has
either positive or negative sign (numerical variable  taking either -1 or
1) and "Type" is a just categorical variable (of char class) composed of 3
clases Types namly "R", "E", and "CS".

Maybe there is instead of a reporter() function output results some
bibliography that can lead me to a nice manner in which I can report the
results of my simple application of rma.mv() function output as an example
to support the bases of the writing of my report.

Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 12:05 PM Yefeng Yang <yefeng.yang1 using unsw.edu.au>

> Actually, I have a different opinion about reporter() function. Just for
> an open discussion and no offensive. Instead of automatically generating
> an analysis report based on the fitted model (via rma()), it is probably
> more useful to have a helper function to automatically generate a
> "publication-ready" table that shows the quantities recommended by various
> PRISMA-related reporting guidelines, such as the name of the moderator,
> tau, I2, point estimate, CIs, k, t, p, et al. The analysis report is
> something that should be (and must be at some point) done by the analysts
> themselves and they are responsible for the proper interpretation.
> Regards,
> Yefeng
> ------------------------------
> *From:* R-sig-meta-analysis <r-sig-meta-analysis-bounces using r-project.org>
> on behalf of Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (NP) via R-sig-meta-analysis <
> r-sig-meta-analysis using r-project.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 15 June 2023 18:38
> *To:* R Special Interest Group for Meta-Analysis <
> r-sig-meta-analysis using r-project.org>
> *Cc:* Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (NP) <
> wolfgang.viechtbauer using maastrichtuniversity.nl>; Gabriel Cotlier <
> gabiklm01 using gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [R-meta] Question about function reporter()
> Dear Gabriel,
> You can't, since reporter() doesn't currently work for 'rma.mv' objects.
> Models that can be fitted with rma() (same as rma.uni()) are relatively
> simple and the number of possibilities that need to be covered for
> translating the results from such a model into text are managable. Although
> even here, there are currently restrictions. For example, reporter()
> currently only works for 'intercept-only models' (i.e., models without
> moderators), it doesn't work when robust() was used on the model, and it
> doesn't work for location-scale models. Allowing reporter() to work with
> meta-regression models is on my radar, but not sure when I will get to this.
> Models that can be fitted with rma.mv() are an entirely different beast.
> This function allows users to fit multilevel models (with essentially no
> limits on the number of levels), multivariate models (with multiple
> correlated random effects), network meta-analyses, phylogenetic
> meta-analyses, spatio-temporal models, models with random slopes, models
> with crossed random effects, and combinations thereof (e.g., multivariate
> network meta-analysis). Such models will also typically involve one or
> multiple moderators (e.g., to distinguish different outcomes, treatments,
> time points, etc.). Depending on the type of model, different aspects of
> the results are also more or less relevant (e.g., in a phylogenetic MA,
> there would be a lot of focus on the random effects for species, while in a
> network MA, focus would be more on contrasting the different treatments
> with each other). There is essentially no way in hell that one could write
> reporter()-like functionality for 'rma.mv' type models that covers all
> these aspects/possibilities in a sensible way.
> Of course, one could consider writing a version that only covers a few
> special cases; for example, models of the form rma.mv(yi, V, random = ~ 1
> | level1/level2/level3/...) or rma.mv(yi, V, random = ~ var1 | var2)
> although the latter type of model would often be used when var1 corresponds
> to different outcomes in which case the model would probably involve
> moderators and be of the form rma.mv(yi, V, mods = ~ outcome, random = ~
> outcome | study), but in the end, the reporter() function cannot read the
> users mind as to what the goal and focus of their analysis was.
> Alternatively, one could generate very generic text that does cover many
> possibilities, but this would add essentially nothing to just reading the
> output directly.
> Maybe if we wait another 20-30 years, ChatGPT (or Skynet or whatever it
> will be called then) will be able to do something like this automatically.
> However, we might be too busy fighting off the Terminators at that point to
> worry about rma.mv() models ...
> Best,
> Wolfgang
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: R-sig-meta-analysis [
> mailto:r-sig-meta-analysis-bounces using r-project.org
> <r-sig-meta-analysis-bounces using r-project.org>] On
> >Behalf Of Gabriel Cotlier via R-sig-meta-analysis
> >Sent: Thursday, 15 June, 2023 6:37
> >To: R Special Interest Group for Meta-Analysis
> >Cc: Gabriel Cotlier
> >Subject: [R-meta] Question about function reporter()
> >
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am using an object of class "rma.mv" "rma" as :
> >
> >class(data)
> >[1] "rma.mv" "rma"
> >
> >and would like to use the function reporter().
> >How could this possibly be done either directly in metafor in R or maybe
> in
> >JAMOVI or in other software where the metafor package is included?
> >
> >Thanks a lot.
> >Kind regards,
> >Gabriel
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