[R-meta] question on scatter plot of estimates (Fisher's Z) against the standard error

[Michael Dewey]

I am sorry Gabriel but I do not understand why the plot you say you 
produced fails to do what you say you want.

Michael

On 19/07/2023 10:59, Gabriel Cotlier wrote:
> Hello Michael,
> Thank you very much for your response.
> I just would like to show that the of data set I have has high 
> uncertainty given that no possible pattern is observable or detectable 
> and no order is possible to visulize in the scattering,
> I thought that a plot with x axis = fisher's z observed 
> outcomes (estimates) and y axis = standard error or any other measure of 
> uncertainty could at least visually demostrate that assumption.
> If such a lack of pattern or high uncertainty in the data set can also  
> be demonstrated numerically, even better.
> Kind regards,
> Gabriel
> 
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 12:29 PM Michael Dewey <lists using dewey.myzen.co.uk 
> <mailto:lists using dewey.myzen.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Dear Gabriel
> 
>     I am not realy sure what you are trying to do but one point which
>     occurs
>     to me is that forest plots are conventional plotted with small
>     values of
>     standard error at the top.
> 
>     Michael
> 
>     On 19/07/2023 06:07, Gabriel Cotlier via R-sig-meta-analysis wrote:
>      > Dear all,
>      >
>      > I have already posted this question with no response.
>      > Maybe this time I am luckier and someone with more knowledge than
>     me in the
>      > Metafor package can answer me.
>      >
>      > In a nutshell, what I would like is to be able to produce a
>     scatter plot of
>      > the observed oucomes or the estimates, in my case Fisher's z for
>     the x axis
>      > and the standard error in the y axis, with the standard error 
>     (SE) the
>      > same as it appears when running the funnel() function for a
>     funnel plot
>      > with the model (without moderators) as the input argument.
>     Actually, it is
>      > a funnel plot without the background of the funnel distribution
>     but just
>      > the scatter of points, that is suppressing the funnel distribution on
>      > the background.
>      >
>      > I tried to do so in agreement with the definition of SE used for
>     the funnel
>      > plot in the package Vignette published at Journal of Scientific
>     software in
>      > page 26:
>      >
>      > "*For models without moderators, the figure shows the observed
>     outcomes on
>      > the horizontal axis against their corresponding standard errors
>     (i.e., the
>      > square root of the sampling variances) on the vertical axis. A
>     vertical
>      > line indicates the **estimate based on the model. A pseudo confidence
>      > interval region is drawn around this value with bounds equal to
>     ±1.96 · SE,
>      > where SE is the standard error value from the vertical axis.*"
>      >
>      >
>      > I tried to reproduce the vertical axis (y) using the square root
>     of the
>      > sampling variable, but the result was an upside down scaling of the
>      > observed outcomes or estimates on a different y scale for the x
>     ticks. The
>      > plot seems to have similarities with the funnel plot from the
>     funnel()
>      > function, but it is not exactly the same without the background
>     of the
>      > funnel distribution graphic. Maybe the problem could be that in the
>      > funnel() function, contrary to my simple attempt to imitate it
>     with the
>      > square root of the sampling variable, the pseudo confidence
>     interval is
>      > estimated for each value? Could this be the reason?
>      >
>      >
>      > If so, how could I reproduce the funnel () function plot without
>     the funnel
>      > distribution graphic in the background and just the scattering of the
>      > points using the same pseudo-confidence interval?
>      >
>      >
>      > Thanks a lot for your help and assistance.
>      >
>      > Kind regards,
>      >
>      > Gabriel
>      >
>      >       [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > R-sig-meta-analysis mailing list @
>     R-sig-meta-analysis using r-project.org
>     <mailto:R-sig-meta-analysis using r-project.org>
>      > To manage your subscription to this mailing list, go to:
>      > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-meta-analysis
>     <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-meta-analysis>
>      >
> 
>     -- 
>     Michael
>     http://www.dewey.myzen.co.uk/home.html
>     <http://www.dewey.myzen.co.uk/home.html>
> 
> 
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free.www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

-- 
Michael
http://www.dewey.myzen.co.uk/home.html