[R-sig-Geo] rgdal release candidate 1.5-9 rev. 1000 ready for testing
Roy Mendelssohn - NOAA Federal
roy@mende|@@ohn @end|ng |rom no@@@gov
Sat Jun 6 17:28:01 CEST 2020
Hi All:
There are some important issues being discussed here about access to new versions of libraries on certain platforms, but can I add:
1. Let's keep the discussion civil and factual. Do a little editing before you send to remove side comments.
2. Develops/maintainers are almost all volunteers, it is a lot of work, and what may seem easy to you can be just one more large piece of work for the maintainer.
3. Most importantly, work with the developer to find solutions for things that they can't do. If there are solutions to getting the new proj and gdal libraries on a Mac, post how to do that and also how to use them to build rgdal, sp and sf. Work with the Mac CRAN maintainer to get the libraries on that machine so that binary builds can be available to users.
Thanks to all for the work that they do. I think everyone is honestly trying to achieve the same purposes, but sometimes frustrations can set in.
-Roy
> On Jun 6, 2020, at 7:28 AM, Patrick Schratz <patrick.schratz using gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roger,
>
> I am sorry for arguing differently so often recently, but if I think
> that unfair arguing is going on, I have the feeling to correct this.
>
> First, again I think that stating "I do not have access to this system"
> is a weak reason in 2020.
> I've said this previously but again: As a developer/maintainer, there is
> the implicit burden to set up a dev environment across different
> platforms.
> CI helps here.
> For more detailed testing, local emulation is possible via virtual
> machines which also applies to macOS systems (setting up is harder but
> not impossible).
> Before switching back to macOS a few months ago, I had a virtual machine
> of macOS running and used it successfully for dev purposes.
>
> Second: All package managers seek to provide stability and homebrew is
> one of the most sophisticated ones out there.
> I honestly do not understand the general bashing against package
> managers here.
>
> Third: What role does Apple play in all of this? I am not arguing that
> they made some decisions that did not necessarily enhance the dev
> experience on macOS.
> However, I do not see any of these having an effect on the spatial
> library stack, especially GDAL and PROJ.
>
> The current situation is that the **main** package manager on macOS,
> namely homebrew, has a temporary version situation of GDAL and PROJ that
> is (for no clear reason yet) blocked by the client package rgdal.
>
> Users on macOS can however use the formulas of the osgeo4mac
> (https://github.com/OSGeo/homebrew-osgeo4mac) tap which comes with PROJ7
> and GDAL3 to solve these issues.
>
> ```r
> brew tap osgeo/osgeo4mac
> brew unlink gdal
> brew unlink proj
>
> brew install osgeo-gdal
> brew install osgeo-proj
> brew link osgeo-gdal
> brew link osgeo-proj
> ```
>
> I am well aware that many users of spatial software are not developers
> in their every day life and should stick to binaries.
> However, there is a group that does source installs and there are CI
> checks that rely on proper source installations with the current stack
> of the main package managers on a platform.
> And exactly this group is blocked right now by blocking the rgdal
> installation at all, with a somewhat weak reasoning for this action.
>
> In addition, arguing/ranting about specific platforms with points
> unrelated to the current issues is a thing that I absolutely dislike,
> getting me started arguing against it.
> I also do not like certain platforms and have personal favorites.
> However, I always check on all and make sure that everyone gets a
> pleasant experience on their platform, even if that's painful for me and
> costs a lot of time.
>
> I am well aware that I might not be invited to the next imaginary party
> with my arguing here but maybe the discussion can make use of more real
> facts again, lower subjective views, and focus on providing support for
> everyone, on all platforms, without introducing something like a
> "platform racism" with semi-fake news.
>
> Best, Patrick
>
> On 6 Jun 2020, at 15:45, Roger Bivand wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Jun 2020, Ista Zahn wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 7:47 PM Manuel Spínola <mspinola10 using gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the confusion, but with all these suggestions, what is the
>>>> way to
>>>> have the updated versions of the external
>>>> software GEOS, PROJ, and GDAL for macOS users.
>>>
>>> I think the current recommendation is "if you have to ask don't do
>>> it". Just wait for these to be updated in the OSX binary packages on
>>> CRAN.
>>
>> Thanks, a much better way of saying this!
>>
>> We really would like to be able to help macOS users who see "Install
>> from source?" and are tempted to choose "yes", but not only do we not
>> have the resources or access to running systems, but also, at the
>> moment, things seem very unpredictable. We do not think that
>> environments are helpful, and many package managers do not seem to
>> have sufficient focussed attention, which is understandable given
>> Apple's gift for moving the goalposts.
>>
>> If users can install external software from source (macOS, Linux),
>> they/we have a good deal of freedom. But this takes time, insight, and
>> for many is problematic because their production system is blocked
>> until the new versions are ready (PROJ and GDAL are C++11 or more, and
>> take an order of magnitude longer to compile than just a few years
>> ago).
>>
>> So for Windows and macOS, waiting for the CRAN binaries is a
>> reasonable choice.
>>
>> Beyond this, we need to find ways of providing share/proj and
>> share/gdal metadata files for all of the packages now using the PROJ
>> and GDAL libraries, and of navigating the content download network for
>> geodetic transformation grids available from PROJ 7. But that is
>> another story ...
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ista
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Manuel
>>>>
>>>> El vie., 5 jun. 2020 a las 14:31, Patrick Schratz (<
>>>> patrick.schratz using gmail.com>) escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure if the part with
>>>>>
>>>>> use --with-proj_api="proj_api.h" for deprecated API
>>>>>
>>>>> Is of much help since c/p won’t work but the text let’s people
>>>>> assume that c/p could/should work.
>>>>> In fact, a full path to “proj_api.h” is required?
>>>>>
>>>>> I still do not like this blocker and I still do not know if this
>>>>> combination causes serious issues in production or just limits new
>>>>> features.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the time being, using and linking osgeo-gdal (3.0.1) and
>>>>> osgeo-proj
>>>>> (7.0.1) works and can be used as a workaround until homebrew-core
>>>>> formulas catch up.
>>>>>
>>>>>> checks OK on PROJ 7.0.1 and GDAL 2.2.4
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, since it was maybe caused by my typo a few mails ago: The
>>>>> homebred-core gdal version is at 2.4.4 and not 2.2.4.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 Jun 2020, at 13:29, Roger Bivand wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The release candidate of rgdal_1.5-9 is ready for testing on
>>>>>> R-forge:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://r-forge.r-project.org/R/?group_id=884
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those insisting on installing on PROJ >= 6 and GDAL < 3 must use
>>>>>> configure argument --with-proj_api="proj_api.h"; with this used,
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> version builds with --no-build-vignettes and installs and checks
>>>>>> OK on
>>>>>> PROJ 7.0.1 and GDAL 2.2.4 with --with-proj_api="proj_api.h".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise checked OK with PROJ 4.8.0, 4.9.2, 4.9.3 and 5.2.0 with
>>>>>> GDAL
>>>>>> 1.11.4; with PROJ 5.2.0 and GDAL 2.2.4, 2.3.2 and 2.4.2; with PROJ
>>>>>> 6.3.2 and GDAL 3.0.4; with PROJ 7.0.1 and GDAL 3.0.4 and 3.1.0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All who have indicated issues with source installs are asked to
>>>>>> try
>>>>>> the release candidate and to report back here by midnight CEST
>>>>>> Monday
>>>>>> 8 June. If no indications are forthcoming, I'll assume that
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> with 1.5-8 are resolved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Roger Bivand
>>>>>> Department of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics,
>>>>>> Helleveien 30, N-5045 Bergen, Norway.
>>>>>> voice: +47 55 95 93 55; e-mail: Roger.Bivand using nhh.no
>>>>>> https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2392-6140
>>>>>> https://scholar.google.no/citations?user=AWeghB0AAAAJ&hl=en
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Manuel Spínola, Ph.D.*
>>>> Instituto Internacional en Conservación y Manejo de Vida Silvestre
>>>> Universidad Nacional
>>>> Apartado 1350-3000
>>>> Heredia
>>>> COSTA RICA
>>>> mspinola using una.cr <mspinola using una.ac.cr>
>>>> mspinola10 using gmail.com
>>>> Teléfono: (506) 8706 - 4662
>>>> Personal website: Lobito de río
>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/lobitoderio/>
>>>> Institutional website: ICOMVIS <http://www.icomvis.una.ac.cr/>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> Roger Bivand
>> Department of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics,
>> Helleveien 30, N-5045 Bergen, Norway.
>> voice: +47 55 95 93 55; e-mail: Roger.Bivand using nhh.no
>> https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2392-6140
>> https://scholar.google.no/citations?user=AWeghB0AAAAJ&hl=en_______________________________________________
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**********************
"The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government or NOAA."
**********************
Roy Mendelssohn
Supervisory Operations Research Analyst
NOAA/NMFS
Environmental Research Division
Southwest Fisheries Science Center
***Note new street address***
110 McAllister Way
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Phone: (831)-420-3666
Fax: (831) 420-3980
e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn using noaa.gov www: https://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/
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