[R-pkg-devel] [R] a question of etiquette

Wed Jun 3 02:47:10 CEST 2020

I respectfully submit that the mechanism is accurately described as “viral”
albeit the connotations may be uncomfortable. I will refrain from
commenting further in this thread. Happy to continue with you off-list if
you wish.

Thank you,

Aavi

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:43 PM Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us>
wrote:

> The obvious answer is simply to refer to GPL. It isn't necessary to
> propagate a derogatory point of view by finding another word for an
> incorrect idea.  Try re-reading my previous words without trying to hold on
> to a flawed interpretation.
>
> On June 2, 2020 5:33:56 PM PDT, Avraham Adler <avraham.adler using gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Apologies; my intent was not to disparage, but that is the term is used
> >in
> >the industry and in venues which discuss FLOSS because it reflects that
> >the
> >addition of one component with that kind of copyleft license causes the
> >entire project to need that particular copyleft license. If there is a
> >term
> >which reflects that mechanism from a discipline other than biology,
> >please let me know.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Avi
> >
> >On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:25 PM Jeff Newmiller
> ><jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> "Viral" is has connotations that reflect the biases of the person
> >using
> >> the term. A less loaded perspective is that some people don't want
> >you to
> >> take their contributions out of circulation by using it as the
> >foundation
> >> of your proprietary work. If you want to close it up, build from
> >scratch or
> >> find some other code that isn't GPL.
> >>
> >> Describing it as "viral" makes it sound as if they were trying to
> >steal
> >> something you did instead of protecting their code from being stolen.
> >> Please refrain from being inflammatory.
> >>
> >> On June 2, 2020 4:49:25 PM PDT, Avraham Adler
> ><avraham.adler using gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >IANAL, but the GPL family of licenses is VIRAL copy left so it
> >infects
> >> >anything it touched, which is why many shy away and prefer something
> >> >like
> >> >the Mozilla Public License 2 (MPL) as a compromise between viral
> >> >copyleft
> >> >and the permissive MIT/ISC/BSD2.
> >> >
> >> >Avi
> >> >
> >> >On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:32 PM R. Mark Sharp <rmsharp using me.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Spencer,
> >> >>
> >> >> I apologize for my obvious (in hindsight) error in bringing up the
> >> >topic.
> >> >> I will bring up one example, because of your request. Google has
> >> >listed
> >> >> GPL-1, 2, and 3 as one of several licenses that are restricted and
> >> >cannot
> >> >> be used by a Google product delivered to outside customers. This
> >> >include
> >> >> downloadable client software and software such as insdie the
> >Google
> >> >Search
> >> >> Appliance. This includes having scripts that load packages
> >> >dynamically as
> >> >> with “library()” and “require()”. Please see
> >> >> https://opensource.google/docs/thirdparty/licenses/#restricted for
> >> >their
> >> >> wording.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not defending their position and disagree with it. However,
> >it
> >> >is
> >> >> their position based on what I think is a conservative or overly
> >> >cautious
> >> >> legal interpretation. I am not a lawyer, however, so my opinions
> >are
> >> >of no
> >> >> import.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark
> >> >> R. Mark Sharp, Ph.D.
> >> >> Data Scientist and Biomedical Statistical Consu
> >>
> ><
> https://www.google.com/maps/search/a+Scientist+and+Biomedical+Statistical+Consu?entry=gmail&source=g
> >
> >> ltant
> >> >> 7526 Meadow Green St.
> >> >> San Antonio, TX 78251
> >> >> mobile: 210-218-2868
> >> >> rmsharp using me.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Jun 2, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Spencer Graves <
> >> >> spencer.graves using effectivedefense.org> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >       Can Dr. Sharp kindly provide a credible reference,
> >discussing
> >> >the
> >> >> alleged ambiguities in GPL-2 and GPL-3 that convince some
> >companies
> >> >to
> >> >> avoid them?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >       I like Wikimedia Foundation projects like Wikipedia, where
> >> >almost
> >> >> anyone can change almost anything, and what stays tends to be
> >written
> >> >from
> >> >> a neutral point of view, citing credible sources.  I get several
> >> >emails a
> >> >> day notifying me of changes in articles I'm "watching".  FUD,
> >> >vandalism,
> >> >> etc., are generally reverted fairly quickly or moved to the "Talk"
> >> >page
> >> >> associated with each article, where the world is invited to
> >provide
> >> >> credible source(s).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >       Spencer Graves
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 2020-06-02 10:12, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
> >> >> >> On 2 June 2020 at 10:06, R. Mark Sharp wrote:
> >> >> >> | The GPL-2 and GPL-3 licenses are apparently sufficiently
> >> >ambiguous in
> >> >> the legal community that some companies avoid them.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Wittgenstein:  'That whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must
> >> >remain
> >> >> silent'
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is a mailing list of the R project. R is a GNU Project. R
> >is
> >> >> licensed
> >> >> >> under the GPL, version two or later. That has not stopped large
> >> >> corporations
> >> >> >> from using R, adopting R, or starting or acquiring R related
> >> >businesses.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If you have a strong urge to spread FUD about the GPL and R,
> >could
> >> >you
> >> >> have the
> >> >> >> modicum of etiquette to not do it on a mailing list of the R
> >> >Project?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Dirk
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ______________________________________________
> >> >> > R-package-devel using r-project.org
> >> ><mailto:R-package-devel using r-project.org>
> >> >> mailing list
> >> >> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel <
> >> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel>
> >> >>
> >> >>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________________________
> >> >> R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
> >> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
> >> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>
>
> --
> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
>
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