[R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
Frank E Harrell Jr
f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu
Tue Mar 3 18:33:01 CET 2009
Ajay ohri wrote:
>
> why didnt you call it procunivariate if that was exactly what you wanted
> to do .....
Why would I ever do that? describe is a improvement on univariate,
saving an estimated 87 +/- 87 trees per year in paper by printing what
you need in much less space and concentrating on real descriptive
statistics.
Frank
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Frank E Harrell Jr
> <f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu <mailto:f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu>> wrote:
>
> Ajay ohri wrote:
>
> for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the
> predictive
> analytics world for 3 plus decades.
> I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and
> liebnitz.
>
> i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne".
>
> It basically is meant only for SAS users who want to learn R ,
> without upsetting the schedule of the corporate users.
>
> Simply put , it is a wrapper on SAS language using the function
> command...ie
> procunivariate function in "Anne" package would call the summary
> function
> and so on...
>
>
> Go ahead and add to the confusion. You've already created some by
> using summary for procunivariate. I created the describe function
> in the Hmisc package to replace univariate.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ajay
>
> www.decisionstats.com <http://www.decisionstats.com>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Greg Snow <Greg.Snow at imail.org
> <mailto:Greg.Snow at imail.org>> wrote:
>
> This does not really address my point. Yes, if the few
> nerds who want to
> do funny stuff are the ones making the purchase, then there
> is a good chance
> (but still not guaranteed) that they will get IML, but do
> all companies that
> buy SAS actually think about that, or do they just see the
> extra price (no
> matter how low), or not even think to look at that piece
> because the person
> making the purchase does not really the funny things you can
> do with it.
>
> If you want your SAS code to be able to be run by anyone
> with SAS, you
> cannot assume that they have IML. If you want your R code
> to be run by
> anyone, you cannot make your code dependent on
> packages/tools that are not
> available for all platforms.
>
> --
> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
> Statistical Data Center
> Intermountain Healthcare
> greg.snow at imail.org <mailto:greg.snow at imail.org>
> 801.408.8111
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie
> <mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie>]
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM
> To: Greg Snow
> Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list;
> r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>
> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>
> Yes Greg,
>
> but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty
> cheaply - SAS
> think
> it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny
> stuff.
>
> G
>
>
>
> Greg Snow
> <Greg.Snow at imail.
> org>
> To
> Sent by: "Gerard M. Keogh"
> r-help-bounces at r-
> <GMKeogh at justice.ie <mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie>>, Frank E
> project.org <http://project.org>
> Harrell Jr
>
> <f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu <mailto:f.harrell at vanderbilt.edu>>
>
> cc
> 27/02/2009 19:05
> "r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>"
>
> <r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>>,
> R
> list
> <r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch <mailto:r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch>>
>
> Subject
> Re: [R]
> Inefficiency of SAS
> Programming
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But SAS/IML is not part of base SAS, it costs extra, so
> there is a good
> chance that a user that has SAS will not be able to run
> code that uses
> SAS/IML.
>
> I have known of SAS programmers who know IML well that
> still write
> matrix/vector tools using macros or proc transpose so
> that a user
> without
> IML can still use the code (the fact that the code that
> started this
> thread
> was found on a website, suggests that it was meant for
> general use
> rather
> than something only used internally where you know what
> add-ons will be
> available).
>
> Just another way that R makes life easier for both
> programmer and user.
>
>
> --
> Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D.
> Statistical Data Center
> Intermountain Healthcare
> greg.snow at imail.org <mailto:greg.snow at imail.org>
> 801.408.8111
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>
> [mailto:r-help-bounces at r- <mailto:r-help-bounces at r->
> project.org <http://project.org>] On Behalf Of
> Gerard M. Keogh
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:19 AM
> To: Frank E Harrell Jr
> Cc: r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>; R list
> Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming
>
> Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML
> is the proper
>
> place
>
> for
> matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and
> computation is
> another
> question - R is certainly more seemless in this respect.
>
> Gerard
>
>
>
> Frank E Harrell
> Jr
> <f.harrell at vander
> To
> bilt.edu <http://bilt.edu>>
> "Gerard M. Keogh"
>
> <GMKeogh at justice.ie <mailto:GMKeogh at justice.ie>>
> 27/02/2009 13:55
> cc
> R list <r-
> help at stat.math.ethz.ch <mailto:help at stat.math.ethz.ch>>,
>
> r-help-bounces at r-project.org
> <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>
>
> Subject
> Re: [R]
> Inefficiency of SAS
> Programming
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gerard M. Keogh wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> I can't see the code you mention - Web marshall
> at work - but I
>
> don't
>
> think
>
> you should be too quick to run down SAS - it's a
> powerful and
>
> flexible
>
> language but unfortunately very expensive.
>
> Your example mentions doing a vector product in
> the macro language
>
> -
>
> this
>
> only suggest to me that those people writing the
> code need a crash
>
> course
>
> in SAS/IML (the matrix language). SAS is
> designed to work on
>
> records
>
> and
> so
>
> is inapproprorriate for matrices - macros are
> only an efficient
>
> code
>
> copying device. Doing matrix computations in
> this way is pretty mad
>
> and
> the
>
> code would be impossible never mind the memory
> problems.
> SAS recognise that but a lot of SAS users remain
> familiar with IML.
>
> In IML by contrast there are inner, cross and
> outer products and a
>
> raft
> of
>
> other useful methods for matrix work that R
> users would be familiar
>
> with.
>
> OLS for example is one line:
>
> b = solve(X`X, X`y) ;
> rss = sqrt(ssq(y - Xb)) ;
>
> And to give you a flavour of IML's capabilities
> I implemented a SAS
>
> version
>
> of the MARS program in it about 6 or 7 years ago.
> BTW SPSS also has a matrix language.
>
> Gerard
>
> But try this:
>
> PROC IML;
> ... some custom user code ...
> ... loop over j=1 to 10 ...
> ... PROC GENMOD, output results back to IML
> ...
>
> IML is only a partial solution since it is not
> integrated with the
>
> PROC
>
> step.
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> Frank E Harrell
> Jr
> <f.harrell at vander
>
> To
>
> bilt.edu <http://bilt.edu>>
> R list <r-
>
> help at stat.math.ethz.ch <mailto:help at stat.math.ethz.ch>>
>
> Sent by:
>
> cc
>
> r-help-bounces at r-
> project.org <http://project.org>
>
> Subject
>
> [R]
> Inefficiency of SAS
>
> Programming
>
> 26/02/2009 22:57
>
>
>
> If anyone wants to see a prime example of how
> inefficient it is to
> program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs
> provided by the US
> Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for
> risk adjusting and
> reporting for hospital outcomes at
> http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm
> . The
>
> PSSASP3.SAS
>
> program is a prime example. Look at how you do
> a vector product in
>
> the
>
> SAS macro language to evaluate predictions from
> a logistic
>
> regression
>
> model. I estimate that using R would easily cut
> the programming
>
> time
>
> of
>
> this set of programs by a factor of 4.
>
> Frank
> --
> Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair
> School of
>
> Medicine
>
> Department of Biostatistics
> Vanderbilt
>
> University
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org
> <mailto:R-help at r-project.org> mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
> reproducible code.
>
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************************
>
> ***********
>
> The information transmitted is intended only for
> the person or
>
> entity
>
> to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential
> and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination
> or other use of,
>
> or
>
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this
> information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient is
> prohibited. If you
> received
> this in error, please contact the sender and delete
> the material from
> any
> computer. It is the policy of the Department of
> Justice, Equality
>
> and
>
> Law
> Reform and the Agencies and Offices using its IT
> services to disallow
> the
> sending of offensive material.
>
> Should you consider that the material contained
> in this message is
>
> offensive you should contact the sender immediately
> and also
> mailminder[at]justice.ie <http://justice.ie>.
>
> Is le haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis ar a
> bhfuil sí dírithe, agus
>
> le
> haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis sin amháin, a
> bheartaítear an
> fhaisnéis a
> tarchuireadh agus féadfaidh sé go bhfuil ábhar faoi
> rún agus/nó faoi
> phribhléid inti. Toirmisctear aon athbhreithniú,
> atarchur nó leathadh
>
> a
>
> dhéanamh ar an bhfaisnéis seo, aon úsáid eile a
> bhaint aisti nó aon
> ghníomh
> a dhéanamh ar a hiontaoibh, ag daoine nó ag eintitis
> seachas an
> faighteoir
> beartaithe. Má fuair tú é seo trí dhearmad, téigh i
> dteagmháil leis
>
> an
>
> seoltóir, le do thoil, agus scrios an t-ábhar as aon
> ríomhaire. Is é
> beartas na Roinne Dlí agus Cirt, Comhionannais agus
> Athchóirithe Dlí,
> agus
> na nOifígí agus na nGníomhaireachtaí a úsáideann
> seirbhísí TF na
> Roinne,
> seoladh ábhair cholúil a dhícheadú.
>
> Más rud é go measann tú gur ábhar colúil atá san
> ábhar atá sa
>
> teachtaireacht seo is ceart duit dul i dteagmháil
> leis an seoltóir
> láithreach agus le mailminder[ag]justice.ie
> <http://justice.ie> chomh maith.
>
> ***********************************************************************
>
> ************
>
>
>
>
> --
> Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair
> School of Medicine
> Department of Biostatistics
> Vanderbilt
> University
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org <mailto:R-help at r-project.org>
> mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-
> guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
> reproducible code.
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org <mailto:R-help at r-project.org>
> mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
> reproducible code.
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org <mailto:R-help at r-project.org> mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible
> code.
>
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org <mailto:R-help at r-project.org> mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
>
>
> --
> Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
> Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt University
>
>
--
Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine
Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt University
More information about the R-help
mailing list