[Bioc-devel] Changes to the SummarizedExperiment Class
Tim Triche, Jr.
tim.triche at gmail.com
Wed Mar 4 17:16:15 CET 2015
Oh, I don't disagree. Perhaps the two problems can be addressed
simultaneously by
1) deciding on what contracts a multi-assay container can/would demand to
be useful
2) calling it something besides SummarizedExperiment, say,
ExperimentCollection
Then the SE API could stay the same as it is (which is already very useful)
and progress could be sought in the offshoot (ExperimentCollection or
whatever) without breaking things that rely on SE.
Just off the top of my head, a most generically useful container for DNA
methylation & CNV data (which can of course be called from the same assay)
is Kasper & JP's GenomicRatioSet, which already has some weird quirks for
eSet backwards compatibility. (e.g. sampleNames(x) works, but
sampleNames(x) <- does not work; pData(x) calls colData(x); fData(x) calls
rowData(x)) There are little niggles that I should probably just send in a
patch for, but a cleaner overall container would be better, if for no other
reason than the aforementioned ability to easily experiment with
imputation. An approach that I've been using is to stuff the SNPs, CNV (as
GRanges) and mRNA/miRNA (as a matrix) data into exptData(SE). This is...
somewhat less than optimal, especially when subsetting.
But it does suggest that I could define a coercion from the current
rambling wreck into a nice clean new class/API (ExperimentCollection or
whatever) and I'll bet other package authors could, too. The presence of a
GRangesFrame would then be handy for returning a given assay's results, so
that the user could be blissfully ignorant of the storage backing (ff,
BigMatrix, Matrix, matrix, Rle, whatever) but not lose the data management
advantages of a SummarizedExperiment.
JMHO
Statistics is the grammar of science.
Karl Pearson <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grammar_of_Science>
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Vincent Carey <stvjc at channing.harvard.edu>
wrote:
> I am a bit concerned about any major alterations to the
> SummarizedExperiment API. We have
> two papers and plenty of working code that use it in meaningful ways.
> Effort required to keep new
> formulations back-compatible as well as bug-free has to be weighed
> seriously.
>
> I agree that the name is not ideal. We are learning as we go.
>
> Seems to make sense to start with the contracts we want the instances of
> a class to satisfy. I have long felt
> that X[i, j] idiom is one users and developers should be comfortable with,
> even insist on, and for consistency
> with matrix operations idiom, it should work in a natural way for numeric
> indexing. This seems like an important
> constraint. subsetBy* is a useful idiom, but it is conceivable that we
> would adopt filter() for row-oriented selections
> and select() for column-oriented selections. Do we have to make any
> special design considerations to allow
> very smooth interoperation with out-of-memory resources for certain
> components for developers who want to allow this?
>
> We should have a reasonable way to get data on what is out there, what
> is used, how it is most effectively used.
> What's the SE API? Is it well-adapted to requirements of DESeq2? Other
> killer packages that use/don't use it?
> Even getting data on the formal API for a class is not all that familiar.
> And if folks are writing non-S4 interfaces (i.e., naked
> functions) we have no way of identifying them. See below for one way of
> discovering the API for SummarizedExperiment.
>
> In summary, I think we have to be careful about overdesigning too
> early. Getting clear on contracts seems the best
> way to ensure reuse, and we really want that so that reliability is
> continually assessed. My sense is that it is good
> to give developers something they'll gladly extend, not necessarily reuse
> directly. So we don't have to have
> broad consensus on class details, but on the minimal abstraction and on
> obligatory tests on its basic implementation.
>
> > methods(class="SummarizedExperiment") # perhaps an obsolete version of
> methods cataloguer by MTM
>
> DataFrame with 76 rows and 3 columns
>
> generic
> signature package
>
> <character>
> <character> <character>
>
> 1 [ x="SummarizedExperiment", i="ANY",
> j="ANY", drop="ANY" base
>
> 2 [ x="SummarizedExperiment", i="ANY",
> j="missing", value="ANY" base
>
> 3 [ x="SummarizedExperiment",
> i="ANY", j="missing" base
>
> 4 [<- x="SummarizedExperiment", i="ANY", j="ANY",
> value="SummarizedExperiment" base
>
> 5 assay
> x="SummarizedExperiment", i="character" GenomicRanges
>
> ... ...
> ... ...
>
> 72 updateObject
> object="SummarizedExperiment" BiocGenerics
>
> 73 values
> x="SummarizedExperiment" S4Vectors
>
> 74 values<-
> x="SummarizedExperiment" S4Vectors
>
> 75 width
> x="SummarizedExperiment" BiocGenerics
>
> 76 width<-
> x="SummarizedExperiment" BiocGenerics
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Hector Corrada Bravo <hcorrada at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> May I advocate for 'IndexedDataFrame' or 'IndexedFrame'? 'rowIndices' can
>> return whatever makes sense (GRanges, or other data structures -thinking
>> taxonomy for metagenomics for example-). GRangesFrame can inherit from
>> this.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Hervé Pagès <hpages at fredhutch.org> wrote:
>>
>> > GRangesFrame is an interesting idea and I gave it some thoughts.
>> >
>> > There is this nice symmetry between GRanges and GRangesFrame:
>> >
>> > - GRanges = a naked GRanges + a DataFrame accessible via mcols()
>> >
>> > - GRangesFrame = a DataFrame + a naked GRanges accessible via
>> > some accessor (e.g. rowRanges())
>> >
>> > So GRanges and GRangesFrame are equivalent in terms of what they
>> > can hold, but different in terms of API: the former has the ranges
>> > API as primary API and the DataFrame API on its mcols() component,
>> > and the latter has the DataFrame API as primary API and the ranges
>> > API on its rowRanges() component. Nice switch!
>> >
>> > What does this API switch bring us? A GRangesFrame object is now
>> > an object that fully behaves like a DataFrame and people can also
>> > perform range-based operations on its rowRanges() component.
>> > Here is what I'm afraid is going to happen: people will also want
>> > to be able to perform range-based operations *directly* on
>> > these objects, i.e. without having to call rowRanges() first.
>> > So for example when they do subsetByOverlaps(), subsetting
>> > happens vertically. Also the Hits object returned by findOverlaps()
>> > would contain row indices. Problem with this is that these objects
>> > now start to suffer from the "dual personality syndrome". For
>> > example, it's not clear anymore what their length should be.
>> > Strictly speaking it should be their number of columns (that's
>> > what the length of a DataFrame is), but the ranges API that
>> > we're trying to put on them also makes them feel like vectors
>> > along the vertical dimension so it also feels that their length
>> > should be their number of rows. Same thing with 1D subsetting.
>> > Why does it subset the columns and not the rows? Most people
>> > are now confused.
>> >
>> > It's interesting to note that the same thing happens with GRanges
>> > objects, but in the opposite direction: people wish they could
>> > do DataFrame operations directly on them without calling mcols()
>> > first. But in order to preserve the good health of GRanges objects,
>> > we've not done that (except for $, a shortcut for mcols(x)$,
>> > the pressure was just too strong).
>> >
>> > H.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 03/03/2015 04:35 PM, Michael Lawrence wrote:
>> >
>> >> Should be possible for the annotations to be of any type, as long as
>> they
>> >> satisfy a simple contract of NROW() and 2D "[". Then, you could have a
>> >> DataFrame, GRanges, or whatever in there. But it would be nice to have
>> a
>> >> special class for the container with range information. The contract
>> for
>> >> the range annotation would be to have a granges() method.
>> >>
>> >> I agree it would be nice if there was a way with the methods package to
>> >> easily assert such contracts. For example, one could define an
>> interface
>> >> with a set of generics (and optionally the relevant position in the
>> >> generic
>> >> signature). Then, once all of the methods have been assigned for a
>> >> particular class, it is made to inherit from that contract class. There
>> >> are
>> >> lots of gotchas though. Not sure how useful it would be in practice.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Peter Haverty <haverty.peter at gene.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> There are some nice similarities in these new imaginary types. A
>> >>> "GRangesFrame" is a list of dimensionally identical things (columns)
>> and
>> >>> some row meta-data (the GRanges). The SE-like object is similarly a
>> list
>> >>> of dimensionally like things (matrices, RleDataFrames, BigMatrix
>> objects,
>> >>> HDF5-backed things) with some row meta-data (a DataFrame or
>> >>> GRangesFrame).
>> >>> Elegant? Maybe they would actually be relatives in the class tree.
>> >>>
>> >>> I wonder if this kind of thing would be easier if we had Java-style
>> >>> Interfaces or duck-typing. The "x" slot of "y" holds something that
>> >>> implements this set of methods ...
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh, and kinda apropos, the genoset class will probably go away or
>> become
>> >>> an extension to this new SE-like thing. The extra stuff that comes
>> along
>> >>> with genoset will still be available.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pete
>> >>>
>> >>> ____________________
>> >>> Peter M. Haverty, Ph.D.
>> >>> Genentech, Inc.
>> >>> phaverty at gene.com
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Tim Triche, Jr. <tim.triche at gmail.com
>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> This.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It would be damned near perfect as a return value for assays coming
>> out
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> an object that held several such assays at several time points in a
>> >>>> population, where there are both assay-wise and covariate-wise
>> "holes"
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> could nonetheless be usefully imputed across assays.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Statistics is the grammar of science.
>> >>>> Karl Pearson <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grammar_of_Science>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Peter Haverty <
>> haverty.peter at gene.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I still think GRanges should be a subclass of DataFrame,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> which would make this easy, but I don't seem to be winning that
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> argument.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Just impossible. As Michael mentioned back in November, they have
>> >>>>>> conflicting APIs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Maybe a new "GRangesFrame" that is a DataFrame and holds a GRanges
>> >>>>> (without mcols) as an index?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Bioc-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>> >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioc-devel
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioc-devel
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bioc-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioc-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Hervé Pagès
>> >
>> > Program in Computational Biology
>> > Division of Public Health Sciences
>> > Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
>> > 1100 Fairview Ave. N, M1-B514
>> > P.O. Box 19024
>> > Seattle, WA 98109-1024
>> >
>> > E-mail: hpages at fredhutch.org
>> > Phone: (206) 667-5791
>> > Fax: (206) 667-1319
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bioc-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioc-devel
>> >
>>
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