[R-wiki] Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced... new attempt

[Philippe Grosjean]

Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> I would put the author's name at the top or beginning in the case of a very long
> organized document imported into the wiki.  The reader might never
> get to the bottom of such pages.  For example, published papers generally
> have the author at the top.

OK, that makes sense. It is just a question of convention. So, let's 
decide that the author name should be at the top of the page. I will 
modify exisitng pages that way, just too see how it looks like (may be 
tomorrow, or so).
Best,

Philippe Grosjean

> On 1/30/06, Philippe Grosjean <phgrosjean at sciviews.org> wrote:
> 
>>It is usual, in Wiki pages, to sign at the bottom of your page and to
>>add the date. Look at:
>>http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:installation:packages
>>http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:surprises:emptysetfuncs
>>http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=easier:d2math
>>http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=rtips:data:import
>>
>>(these are only example, except omissions, all pages are signed like that).
>>
>>Would you suggest that the name of the author should appear elsewhere,
>>or with a bigger font, or what?
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>Philippe Grosjean
>>
>>
>>Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
>>
>>>One other point.  In the case that sections are largely converted
>>>portions of someone else's work their name should somehow appear
>>>more prominently in order to give them full credit.  Perhaps in the
>>>link name itself.
>>>
>>>On 1/29/06, Gabor Grothendieck <ggrothendieck at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Overall these are my impressions:
>>>>
>>>>- the technical aspects of the wiki are impressive
>>>>
>>>>- I don't agree that a wiki is necessarily disorganized as the examples below
>>>>which I previously posted and repeat at the end show.  The current
>>>>confusing organization needs to be redone and using one of them as a model
>>>>would be one way since they are seem reasonably well done.
>>>>
>>>>- the beginner/intermediate/expert are not only not useful, but actually
>>>>detract by providing clutter.  I don't think its adequate just to say not to
>>>>use them if you don't like them.  I don't think they should be an
>>>>organizing principile of the wiki.
>>>>
>>>>Tcl - http://mini.net/tcl/
>>>>     - this one has over 1000 pages
>>>>
>>>>Common Lisp - http://www.cliki.net/index
>>>>
>>>>PHP - http://www.php.net/manual/en/
>>>>      - not sure what to call this but users can add comments to end
>>>>of each page.
>>>>
>>>>Lua - http://lua-users.org/wiki/
>>>>
>>>>On 1/29/06, Philippe Grosjean <phgrosjean at sciviews.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Please, please, consider this:
>>>>>
>>>>>**Stop thinking you could ever control the structure of a Wiki!**
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way it is working (everybody can add pages everywhere), it is
>>>>>going to be unstructured, by nature!
>>>>>
>>>>>Also, stop thinking that the Wiki can be restricted to a given use:
>>>>>again, you don't control what people add to it. So, it is not reasonable
>>>>>to think that only material useful for beginners will be added, for
>>>>>instance.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, without a new idea about how to tag material regarding the skill of
>>>>>the user, the Wiki is going to suffer the same problem as does the
>>>>>current R online help: beginners have problems to find essential stuff,
>>>>>because it is not clearly separated from the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>>Currently, there are two mechanism I think about to help make a distinction:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) the novice/user/expert tag. I think that, now, it is easy enough:
>>>>>everything is at user level, except:
>>>>>
>>>>> - trivial things for someone that can install, start and run at least
>>>>>basic analyses in R. This material is clearly meant to help novices to
>>>>>start using R... and it should be tagged as such, so that other users
>>>>>can rapidly skip these pages (when they see the icon, thus, before
>>>>>reading anything).
>>>>>
>>>>> - tricky stuff that a "normal" user does not really need to work with
>>>>>R, but that can be interesting for experts, or people willing to become
>>>>>experts (and thus, try to know a little bit more about the internals, or
>>>>>details about R). This material should be tagged as "expert", so that
>>>>>the other readers can skip these pages/sections and would not feel
>>>>>stupid just because they don't understand what is there.
>>>>>
>>>>>A final word: it is the author that is responsible for the tag on his
>>>>>page, and the tag is an optional feature (Gabor: if you don't like it,
>>>>>or still do not know how to rate material,... just don't use it, right?)
>>>>>
>>>>>2) The second mechanism is the possibility to write custom,
>>>>>well-organized, table-of-content that sort material in the wiki. Someone
>>>>>could, for instance, decide to write a TOC for a biologist beginning
>>>>>using R from a Systat background (something really specific thus), and
>>>>>he could collect together the material he thinks is useful for such a
>>>>>reader (and the skill tag on the pages would help also to spot where
>>>>>material for beginners is located). Such TOCs are, indeed, similar to
>>>>>'Task Views' on CRAN, in a way.
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course, I am open to any other *positive* and *realistic* proposition
>>>>>to help organize material in the Wiki, but I suggest you look at other
>>>>>Wikis, and perhaps also, you start making you own personal Wiki before
>>>>>commenting, because I feel that a couple of negative comments originate
>>>>
>>>>>from people that do not fully understand what a Wiki really is.
>>>>
>>>>>Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>Philippe Grosjean
>>>>>
>>>>>Damian Betebenner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I agree that the categorization into distinct categories is futile. I think that there are much
>>>>>>more meaningful characterizations of the content that can be made that will help the user
>>>>>>navigate its contents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The goal in designing the Wiki, I think, is to allow the user to zero in on what they're
>>>>>>interested in as quickly as possible. Someone mentioned recently on the list-serv
>>>>>>that the list-serv archives are not ideally structured for someone wishing to get
>>>>>>a question answered. Thus, the same questions are asked over and over.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The R language already comes with a "dictonary" like structure for its commands. However,
>>>>>>when you aren't exactly sure what command you need, its tough to know what command
>>>>>>to look at.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As a coder, often the most useful thing to me is a well done example. Some of the examples
>>>>>>in the R command help are wonderful, but I often discover them inadvertantly. What
>>>>>>I will use the Wiki primarily for it to examine really nice examples that people add. That
>>>>>>will lead me to examine the syntax more carefully which will likely in turn lead me to other
>>>>>>examples. It's this back and forth that is the power of hypertext. A Wiki strength is its
>>>>>>ability to present code alongside graphics and text annotation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thus, my recommendation is that a navigation layout be thought up that (in addition to
>>>>>>other functionality) allows the user to quickly procced to examine certain types of
>>>>>>examples (e.g., string manipulation, categorical data analysis, etc.). I don't know if this could
>>>>>>be faciliated using some  sort of metadata, but being able to go back and forth between
>>>>>>examples and the commands that make up the examples seems most useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Damian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>|  On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:12:39 -0500
>>>>>>|  Gabor Grothendieck <ggrothendieck at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I must say I find this entire beginner/intermediate/expert baffling.
>>>>>>>>>I have no idea what goes where and to me its an categorization
>>>>>>>>>that is difficult to get right and probably not a good idea.  I would
>>>>>>>>>just omit the whole thing.  If someone can point to another
>>>>>>>>>language that has used such a categorization successfully
>>>>>>>>>I would be willing to modify this viewpoint but I know of none.
>>>>>>>>>I think more useful categorizations have already
>>>>>>>>>been discussed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 1/28/06, Philippe Grosjean <phgrosjean at sciviews.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Following the previous discussion about the icons with three users (some
>>>>>>>>>>people did not like them and found them not very clear nor informative
>>>>>>>>>>enough), I make a second trial.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This time, there are still three skill levels ("novice", "user" and
>>>>>>>>>>"expert"), but no possible mixture (like "novice" + "user", excluding
>>>>>>>>>>"expert", for instance).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I also considered Tont Plate's suggestion of an explicit text, but I
>>>>>>>>>>integrate this text in the icon (I also took Ben Bolker's suggestion to
>>>>>>>>>>use road signs ;-).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I designed three series of icons:
>>>>>>>>>>1) With text for top of page,
>>>>>>>>>>2) Big icon without text, for sections on the page and
>>>>>>>>>>3) small icons without text, to rate with discrete icons lists or table
>>>>>>>>>>of content entries.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The Wiki site is modified to use these icons, so, you can make your own
>>>>>>>>>>idea more easily. Look for instance at:
>>>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=start for the explanation,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=rtips:data:import for
>>>>>>>>>>the use in a page and,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:introduction
>>>>>>>>>>for usage in a table of content.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Once again, I am waiting for your valuable comments!
>>>>>>>>>>Best,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Philippe Grosjean
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Damian Betebenner
>>>>>>Educational Research, Measurement & Evaluation
>>>>>>Lynch School of Education
>>>>>>Boston College
>>>>>>Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(617) 552 4491
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> 
>