[R-wiki] Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced... new attempt

Mon Jan 30 10:47:07 CET 2006

It is usual, in Wiki pages, to sign at the bottom of your page and to 
add the date. Look at:
http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:installation:packages
http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:surprises:emptysetfuncs
http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=easier:d2math
http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=rtips:data:import

(these are only example, except omissions, all pages are signed like that).

Would you suggest that the name of the author should appear elsewhere, 
or with a bigger font, or what?

Best,

Philippe Grosjean

Gabor Grothendieck wrote:
> One other point.  In the case that sections are largely converted
> portions of someone else's work their name should somehow appear
> more prominently in order to give them full credit.  Perhaps in the
> link name itself.
> 
> On 1/29/06, Gabor Grothendieck <ggrothendieck at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Overall these are my impressions:
>>
>>- the technical aspects of the wiki are impressive
>>
>>- I don't agree that a wiki is necessarily disorganized as the examples below
>>which I previously posted and repeat at the end show.  The current
>>confusing organization needs to be redone and using one of them as a model
>>would be one way since they are seem reasonably well done.
>>
>>- the beginner/intermediate/expert are not only not useful, but actually
>>detract by providing clutter.  I don't think its adequate just to say not to
>>use them if you don't like them.  I don't think they should be an
>>organizing principile of the wiki.
>>
>> Tcl - http://mini.net/tcl/
>>      - this one has over 1000 pages
>>
>> Common Lisp - http://www.cliki.net/index
>>
>> PHP - http://www.php.net/manual/en/
>>       - not sure what to call this but users can add comments to end
>>of each page.
>>
>> Lua - http://lua-users.org/wiki/
>>
>>On 1/29/06, Philippe Grosjean <phgrosjean at sciviews.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Please, please, consider this:
>>>
>>>**Stop thinking you could ever control the structure of a Wiki!**
>>>
>>>By the way it is working (everybody can add pages everywhere), it is
>>>going to be unstructured, by nature!
>>>
>>>Also, stop thinking that the Wiki can be restricted to a given use:
>>>again, you don't control what people add to it. So, it is not reasonable
>>>to think that only material useful for beginners will be added, for
>>>instance.
>>>
>>>So, without a new idea about how to tag material regarding the skill of
>>>the user, the Wiki is going to suffer the same problem as does the
>>>current R online help: beginners have problems to find essential stuff,
>>>because it is not clearly separated from the rest.
>>>
>>>Currently, there are two mechanism I think about to help make a distinction:
>>>
>>>1) the novice/user/expert tag. I think that, now, it is easy enough:
>>>everything is at user level, except:
>>>
>>>  - trivial things for someone that can install, start and run at least
>>>basic analyses in R. This material is clearly meant to help novices to
>>>start using R... and it should be tagged as such, so that other users
>>>can rapidly skip these pages (when they see the icon, thus, before
>>>reading anything).
>>>
>>>  - tricky stuff that a "normal" user does not really need to work with
>>>R, but that can be interesting for experts, or people willing to become
>>>experts (and thus, try to know a little bit more about the internals, or
>>>details about R). This material should be tagged as "expert", so that
>>>the other readers can skip these pages/sections and would not feel
>>>stupid just because they don't understand what is there.
>>>
>>>A final word: it is the author that is responsible for the tag on his
>>>page, and the tag is an optional feature (Gabor: if you don't like it,
>>>or still do not know how to rate material,... just don't use it, right?)
>>>
>>>2) The second mechanism is the possibility to write custom,
>>>well-organized, table-of-content that sort material in the wiki. Someone
>>>could, for instance, decide to write a TOC for a biologist beginning
>>>using R from a Systat background (something really specific thus), and
>>>he could collect together the material he thinks is useful for such a
>>>reader (and the skill tag on the pages would help also to spot where
>>>material for beginners is located). Such TOCs are, indeed, similar to
>>>'Task Views' on CRAN, in a way.
>>>
>>>Of course, I am open to any other *positive* and *realistic* proposition
>>>to help organize material in the Wiki, but I suggest you look at other
>>>Wikis, and perhaps also, you start making you own personal Wiki before
>>>commenting, because I feel that a couple of negative comments originate
>>>from people that do not fully understand what a Wiki really is.
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>Philippe Grosjean
>>>
>>>Damian Betebenner wrote:
>>>
>>>>I agree that the categorization into distinct categories is futile. I think that there are much
>>>>more meaningful characterizations of the content that can be made that will help the user
>>>>navigate its contents.
>>>>
>>>>The goal in designing the Wiki, I think, is to allow the user to zero in on what they're
>>>>interested in as quickly as possible. Someone mentioned recently on the list-serv
>>>>that the list-serv archives are not ideally structured for someone wishing to get
>>>>a question answered. Thus, the same questions are asked over and over.
>>>>
>>>>The R language already comes with a "dictonary" like structure for its commands. However,
>>>>when you aren't exactly sure what command you need, its tough to know what command
>>>>to look at.
>>>>
>>>>As a coder, often the most useful thing to me is a well done example. Some of the examples
>>>>in the R command help are wonderful, but I often discover them inadvertantly. What
>>>>I will use the Wiki primarily for it to examine really nice examples that people add. That
>>>>will lead me to examine the syntax more carefully which will likely in turn lead me to other
>>>>examples. It's this back and forth that is the power of hypertext. A Wiki strength is its
>>>>ability to present code alongside graphics and text annotation.
>>>>
>>>>Thus, my recommendation is that a navigation layout be thought up that (in addition to
>>>>other functionality) allows the user to quickly procced to examine certain types of
>>>>examples (e.g., string manipulation, categorical data analysis, etc.). I don't know if this could
>>>>be faciliated using some  sort of metadata, but being able to go back and forth between
>>>>examples and the commands that make up the examples seems most useful.
>>>>
>>>>Damian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> |  On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:12:39 -0500
>>>> |  Gabor Grothendieck <ggrothendieck at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>I must say I find this entire beginner/intermediate/expert baffling.
>>>>>>>I have no idea what goes where and to me its an categorization
>>>>>>>that is difficult to get right and probably not a good idea.  I would
>>>>>>>just omit the whole thing.  If someone can point to another
>>>>>>>language that has used such a categorization successfully
>>>>>>>I would be willing to modify this viewpoint but I know of none.
>>>>>>>I think more useful categorizations have already
>>>>>>>been discussed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 1/28/06, Philippe Grosjean <phgrosjean at sciviews.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Following the previous discussion about the icons with three users (some
>>>>>>>>people did not like them and found them not very clear nor informative
>>>>>>>>enough), I make a second trial.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This time, there are still three skill levels ("novice", "user" and
>>>>>>>>"expert"), but no possible mixture (like "novice" + "user", excluding
>>>>>>>>"expert", for instance).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I also considered Tont Plate's suggestion of an explicit text, but I
>>>>>>>>integrate this text in the icon (I also took Ben Bolker's suggestion to
>>>>>>>>use road signs ;-).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I designed three series of icons:
>>>>>>>>1) With text for top of page,
>>>>>>>>2) Big icon without text, for sections on the page and
>>>>>>>>3) small icons without text, to rate with discrete icons lists or table
>>>>>>>>of content entries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Wiki site is modified to use these icons, so, you can make your own
>>>>>>>>idea more easily. Look for instance at:
>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=start for the explanation,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=rtips:data:import for
>>>>>>>>the use in a page and,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- http://www.sciviews.org/_rgui/wiki/doku.php?id=beginners:introduction
>>>>>>>>for usage in a table of content.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Once again, I am waiting for your valuable comments!
>>>>>>>>Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Philippe Grosjean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>R-sig-wiki mailing list
>>>>>>>>R-sig-wiki at r-project.org
>>>>>>>>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-wiki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>R-sig-wiki mailing list
>>>>>>>R-sig-wiki at r-project.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Damian Betebenner
>>>>Educational Research, Measurement & Evaluation
>>>>Lynch School of Education
>>>>Boston College
>>>>Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
>>>>
>>>>(617) 552 4491
>>>>
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>>>>R-sig-wiki mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
>