[R-sig-ME] Advise on mixed effect model for a longitudinal study (with lme4)

wphantomfr wphantomfr at gmail.com
Thu Oct 8 16:12:38 CEST 2015


Dear Thierry,

First thanks a lot for taking time to answer me.

Thierry Onkelinx wrote:
> Dear anonymous.
oups.. I forgot to Sign


>
> Your random effects seem a bit to complicated for your data. A random
> slope with 6 observations per subject is pushing the limits. A second
> degree polynomial on 6 observations is nonsense. I can understand that
> is does make sense on a conceptual level, but you just don't have enough
> data to get sensible estimates on such a complex model.
>
> My advice would be to restrict the random effect to just a random
> intercept. The benefit is that you gain 5 parameters and their
> associated degrees of freedom. Note that a second order polynomial on
> the fixed effect might be feasible.

I think I understand the problem but did not realize I was pushing the 
limits doing this because (1) it was making sense to use random slopes 
when looking at the data and (2) I was probably too much focused on the 
results of model comparisons that indicated a better fit for this 
complex model.

But is there a way to know that we are pushing too much the limits ? 
Would only the random intercept + linear slope be acceptable (however 
the linear slope is probably optimal with our design)

>
> You probably want to translate your hypotheses in a set of linear
> combination of model parameters. Then you can test those hypotheses.
> Have a look at the examples in the glht() function fom the mulcomp package.

Well that's exactly that... I just didn't realise that glht could work 
with lme models
>
> PS Please don't post in HTML. It mangles up the output and code.
sorry. I think I have now disabled the default HTML mode.


Thank you very much for your help !

Sylvain CLEMENT
PSITEC (EA 4072) laboratory
"Neuropsychologie : Audition, Cognition, Action (NACA)" team
University of Lille, France.


>
> Best regards,
>
> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for Nature
> and Forest
> team Biometrie & Kwaliteitszorg / team Biometrics & Quality Assurance
> Kliniekstraat 25
> 1070 Anderlecht
> Belgium
>
> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more
> than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to
> say what the experiment died of. ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
> The plural of anecdote is not data. ~ Roger Brinner
> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not
> ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of
> data. ~ John Tukey
>
> 2015-10-08 10:59 GMT+02:00 wphantomfr <wphantomfr at gmail.com
> <mailto:wphantomfr at gmail.com>>:
>
>     Dear list members,
>
>     I currently trying to apply mixed effects models to a longitudinal
>     studies with a treatment period.
>
>     The study is :
>     Several evaluation of a participants characteristic (let's call it DV)
>     at different times (in week) : 0 (1 evaluaition), 1 , 3, 6, 8 10.
>
>     We have 3 different groups of participants (randomized controlled study)
>     : a control group without treatment and groupA and groupB which received
>     a different treatment.
>
>     The treatment is applied to the groupA & B during weeks 2-5 therefore :
>           - evaluations at w0 and w1 are "baseline measures" (pre-treatment)
>           - evaluation at w3 is during treatment
>           - evaluation at w6 is post treatment
>           - evaluation at w8 & w10 are follow-up evaluation.
>
>
>
>     After reading a lot on mixed effects model I arrived to the following
>     model (using lme4 package):
>
>     best_model<-lmer(DV ~ (time+I(time^2))*GROUP
>     +(1+(time+I(time^2))|SUBJECT),data=brut)
>
>     It includes a quadratic effect of time (continuous variable) and both
>     intercept and "slopes" (not a good word for the quadratic par) of the
>     effects of time (both linear and quadratic) are estimated for the random
>     effects of SUBJECT.
>
>     This model seems to be the best compared to models including only parts
>     of these terms (model comparison with anova ). The summary report of the
>     model is pasted at the end of this message
>
>
>     My hypothesis are :
>           - that I should see a superior effect of time in group A & B (if
>     the treatment increases DV, I should have a positive coeficient for time
>     and a negative coeficient for time^2)
>           - that the effect of time may be superior in group B compared to
>     group A
>           - I would also like to see if one of the treatment have a more
>     long-term effect (sustained effect in the foloup evaluations)
>
>           I'm not sure how to test/answer my questions from my model.
>
>
>
>
>     My guesses :
>     - the fact that GROUPA et GROUPB have low t-values is a sign that my
>     groups are quite similar at the begining of the study
>     - The coeficient of time:GROUP(A & B) and I(time^2):group(A&B) are in
>     line with my hypothesis
>     - I don't know how, in this context, I can answer to the question of
>     long-term effects...
>
>
>     My questions :
>
>     Am I totally wrong ?
>
>     How to best assess my hypothesis ?
>
>     Any more advises ?
>
>
>     Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>
>     Here is the model report :
>
>
>     summary(bestM)
>     Linear mixed model fit by REML
>     t-tests use  Satterthwaite approximations to degrees of freedom
>     ['lmerMod']
>     Formula: DV ~ (time + I(time^2)) * GROUP + (1 + (time + I(time^2))
>     |      SUBJECT)
>          Data: brut
>
>     REML criterion at convergence: -458.9
>
>     Scaled residuals:
>           Min      1Q  Median      3Q     Max
>     -3.1714 -0.3972  0.0660  0.4385  2.7059
>
>     Random effects:
>        Groups   Name        Variance  Std.Dev. Corr
>        SUBJECT  (Intercept) 6.201e-02 0.24902
>                 time        2.042e-03 0.04519  -0.45
>                 I(time^2)   1.162e-05 0.00341   0.41 -0.95
>        Residual             1.314e-02 0.11462
>     Number of obs: 710, groups:  CODE, 117
>
>     Fixed effects:
>                                Estimate Std. Error         df t value
>     Pr(>|t|)
>     (Intercept)             1.858e-01  4.557e-02  1.140e+02   4.078
>     8.44e-05 ***
>     time                    1.960e-03  1.159e-02  1.138e+02   0.169  0.86599
>     I(time^2)               2.149e-04  1.032e-03  1.137e+02   0.208  0.83547
>     GROUPA                     -2.006e-02  6.198e-02  1.140e+02  -0.324
>     0.74681
>     GROUPB                    -2.898e-02  6.094e-02  1.138e+02  -0.476
>     0.63531
>     time:GROUPA                3.837e-02  1.576e-02  1.138e+02   2.435
>     0.01645 *
>     time:GROUPB                4.212e-02  1.546e-02  1.120e+02   2.724
>     0.00748 **
>     I(time^2):GROUPA        -2.749e-03  1.404e-03  1.137e+02  -1.957
>     0.05277 .
>     I(time^2):GROUPB          -3.222e-03  1.377e-03  1.113e+02  -2.340
>     0.02108 *
>     ---
>     Signif. codes:  0 ‘***’ 0.001 ‘**’ 0.01 ‘*’ 0.05 ‘.’ 0.1 ‘ ’ 1
>
>     Correlation of Fixed Effects:
>                    (Intr) time   I(t^2) GROUPA GROUPB t:GROUPA t:GROUPB
>     I(^2):GROUPA
>     time         -0.467
>     I(time^2)     0.379 -0.951
>     GROUPA          -0.735  0.343 -0.279
>     GROUPB       -0.748  0.349 -0.283  0.550
>     t:GROUPA      0.343 -0.735  0.699 -0.467 -0.257
>     t:GROUPB      0.350 -0.749  0.712 -0.257 -0.467  0.551
>     I(^2):GROUPA -0.279  0.699 -0.735  0.379  0.208 -0.951   -0.524
>     I(^2):GROUPB -0.284  0.713 -0.750  0.209  0.379 -0.524   -0.951    0.551
>
>
>              [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
>     <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org> mailing list
>     https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models
>
>



More information about the R-sig-mixed-models mailing list