[R-sig-ME] Results from GLMM, error bars for predictions
Quentin Schorpp
quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de
Mon Apr 27 11:30:30 CEST 2015
Hello,
Thank you for writing,
I tried what you said, but simple addition of "offset(log(0.25))" did
not work. Hence I created a factor "area" expressed as m² with the value
0.25 for all observations:
data$area <- rep(0.25, 180)
and added offset(log(area)) to the model formula.
Ok, plotting the predicted values for all relevant combinations of the
fixed effects was also my intention. However, the problem with the
errorbars occured. Or is it a faulty assumption of mine, that plots of
predicted values need error-bars?
I'm sorry, i recognized that the answer was only adressed to you, after
i send the mail. Then i send it again to the Mailing List, i hope it
won't get to chaotic right now. Now i used "answer all"
kind regards
Am 27.04.2015 um 10:50 schrieb Thierry Onkelinx:
> Dear Quentin,
>
> Please keep the mailing list in cc.
>
> Dropping non significant terms from an ordered factor is not ok. That
> would change the interpretation of the factor. You wouldn't drop non
> significant levels of an unordered factor either.
>
> Ben's solution is about multiple comparisons with random (and fixed)
> effects. You're only dealing with multiple comparisons with fixed
> effects. So glht() will do the trick.
>
> Try plotting the predicted values for all relevant combinations of the
> fixed effects. I find that easier to interpret than just a bunch of
> coefficients.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for Nature
> and Forest
> team Biometrie & Kwaliteitszorg / team Biometrics & Quality Assurance
> Kliniekstraat 25
> 1070 Anderlecht
> Belgium
>
> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no
> more than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be
> able to say what the experiment died of. ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
> The plural of anecdote is not data. ~ Roger Brinner
> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does
> not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body
> of data. ~ John Tukey
>
> 2015-04-27 9:30 GMT+02:00 Quentin Schorpp <quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de
> <mailto:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de>>:
>
> Dear Thierry,
>
> thank you very much for your advice, i didn't hear about the
> offset() argument, yet. I'll try this immidiately.
> My first intention was, that the large error bars are due to the
> high variability and the low number of replicates (3), which stays
> true, i think. The point was, that i just couldn't explain, why
> the output was so weird, despite that the model stated
> significance and 0 was not within the confidence intervals.
> Now, it makes me confident to have the advice of using glht from
> you. I was kind of unsecure, regarding the glht procedure,
> because i read this post on stack overflow by Ben Bolker:
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25949701/post-hoc-test-in-generalised-linear-mixed-models-how-to-do
>
>
> Next I'll give up treating age_class as an ordered factor,
> although i found the idea quite interesting.
> Do you know where to get information about using ordered factors
> in a glmm?
> The output was not significant for the cubic term in my case, and
> i asked myself if i could/should skip it from the model.
>
> Probably i could use samplingCampaign as ordered factor.
>
> One thing I'm still interested in, is a tutorial that shows how to
> present results from more than one univariate analysis in a way to
> have it ready for publication.
> In my opinion eyerthing, even in the books, is about modeling
> procedure, validation, cryptic names of important coefficients. I
> know cooking with an 0815 recipe is dangerous, but that's not what
> I'm looking for.
>
> Thank you again for your help!!
> Quentin
>
>
> Am 26.04.2015 um 20:37 schrieb Thierry Onkelinx:
>> Dear Quentin,
>>
>> - You better use an offset if you want to express the model in
>> terms of m². Just add offset(log(0.25)) to the model.
>> - I'd rather treat samplingCamping as a factor.
>> - You can get post hoc comparisons with the multcomp package. See
>> the example below.
>>
>> library(glmmADMB)
>> Owls$Interaction <- interaction(Owls$FoodTreatment, Owls$SexParent)
>> om <- glmmadmb(SiblingNegotiation~
>> Interaction+(1|Nest)+offset(log(BroodSize)),zeroInflation=TRUE,family="nbinom",data=Owls)
>> library(multcomp)
>> pairwise <- glht(om, mcp(Interaction = "Tukey"))
>> pairwise.ci <http://pairwise.ci> <- confint(pairwise)
>> library(ggplot2)
>> ggplot(pairwise.ci <http://pairwise.ci>, aes(y = lhs, x =
>> exp(estimate), xmin = exp(lwr), xmax = exp(upr))) +
>> geom_errorbarh() + geom_point() + geom_vline(xintercept = 1)
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
>> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for
>> Nature and Forest
>> team Biometrie & Kwaliteitszorg / team Biometrics & Quality
>> Assurance
>> Kliniekstraat 25
>> 1070 Anderlecht
>> Belgium
>>
>> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be
>> no more than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he
>> may be able to say what the experiment died of. ~ Sir Ronald
>> Aylmer Fisher
>> The plural of anecdote is not data. ~ Roger Brinner
>> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer
>> does not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a
>> given body of data. ~ John Tukey
>>
>> 2015-04-24 15:08 GMT+02:00 Quentin Schorpp
>> <quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de <mailto:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de>>:
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I'm using glmmadmb() to model abundance data (counts) of soil
>> organisms
>> (e.g. earthworms). My design covers agricultural fields of five
>> different age classes . Every age-class has three field
>> replicates.
>> Additionally every field was sampled 3times during the
>> investigation
>> (atumn, spring, autumn -> sampling campaign).
>> with 4 samples taken randomly at each field (1 Sample = 0.25 m²).
>> Several environmental parameters were assessed for each field
>> but never
>> for one of the four samples explicitly.
>> Hence the environmental data is often redundant for the samples,
>> especially when climatic measurements were even similar for
>> more ththan
>> one field.
>>
>> My hypothesis is that abundance increases with the age_class
>>
>> My model is:
>>
>> model <- glmmadmb(abundance ~ age_class + samplingCampaign +
>> environmental1 + env2 + env3 + (1|field), data, family="poisson")
>>
>> age_class = ordered factor
>> sampling campaign = continous, difference to the first
>> sampling in days
>> (first sampling always 0)
>> env(1-n) = continous
>> total number of samples = 180
>>
>> Dispersion factor is 1.45
>>
>> I do model validation with
>> 1. plot pearson residuals against fitted values
>> 2. plot pearson residuals against each covariate in the model
>> 3. make a histogram of the residuals
>>
>> In my opinion everything looks ok.
>>
>> Now I have the really really big problem: *I just don't know
>> how to
>> present the results.*
>> I'd like to do a barplot with mean abundances for age_class
>> and standard
>> errors and do Post Hoc tukey test to look at differences
>> between the
>> factor levels. But i just don't know how to to these Post-Hoc
>> tests.
>>
>> I've got one approach for extracting predictions and standard
>> errors for
>> predictions using a test dataset with mean environmental
>> variables:
>>
>> test.data=expand.grid(age_class=levels(data$age_class),
>> samplingCampaign = data$samcam),
>> env1 = mean(data$env1),
>> env2 = max(data$env2))
>>
>> pred.abundance <- cbind(test.data,
>> predict(model, test.data,
>> type="link", se.fit=TRUE),
>> abundance.response =
>> predict(model, test.data, type="response"))
>>
>> pred.anc <- within(pred.abundance, {
>> anc <- 4*exp(fit)
>> LL <- 4*exp(fit -
>> 1.96 * se.fit)
>> UL <- 4*exp(fit +
>> 1.96 *
>> se.fit) })
>>
>> Then I make a plot and get INCREDIBLY large standard errors
>> and in
>> contrast to the boxplot of the predicitons
>> (plot(data$age_class,predict(model, type="response")), the
>> abundance is
>> not increasing with the age_class. I multiply by 4 since i
>> want to
>> present the results per m²
>>
>> Do you know where the mistake is?
>>
>> I would appreciate if you could help me with this analysis,
>> since I'm
>> trying to learn GLMM for more than a year and i can't ask a
>> real person
>> here at this Institution. Thanks in advance,
>> Quentin
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Quentin Schorpp, M.Sc.
>> Thünen Institute of Biodiversity
>> Bundesallee 50
>> 38116 Braunschweig (Germany)
>>
>> Tel: +49 531 596-2524 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2524>
>> Fax: +49 531 596-2599 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2599>
>> Mail: quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de
>> <mailto:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de>
>> Web: http://www.ti.bund.de
>>
>> The Johann Heinrich von Thünen Institute, Federal Research
>> Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries – Thünen
>> Institute in brief –
>> consists of 15 specialized institutes that carry out research
>> and provide policy advice in the fields of economy, ecology
>> and technology.
>>
>>
>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
>> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org> mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Schorpp, M.Sc.
> Thünen-Institut für Biodiversität
> Bundesallee 50
> 38116 Braunschweig (Germany)
>
> Tel:+49 531 596-2524 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2524>
> Fax:+49 531 596-2599 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2599>
> Mail:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de <mailto:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de>
> Web:http://www.ti.bund.de
>
> Das Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut, Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei – kurz: Thünen-Institut –
> besteht aus 15 Fachinstituten, die in den Bereichen Ökonomie, Ökologie und Technologie forschen und die Politik beraten.
>
> Quentin Schorpp, M.Sc.
> Thünen Institute of Biodiversity
> Bundesallee 50
> 38116 Braunschweig (Germany)
>
> Tel:+49 531 596-2524 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2524>
> Fax:+49 531 596-2599 <tel:%2B49%20531%20596-2599>
> Mail:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de <mailto:quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de>
> Web:http://www.ti.bund.de
>
> The Johann Heinrich von Thünen Institute, Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries – Thünen Institute in brief –
> consists of 15 specialized institutes that carry out research and provide policy advice in the fields of economy, ecology and technology.
>
>
--
Quentin Schorpp, M.Sc.
Thünen-Institut für Biodiversität
Bundesallee 50
38116 Braunschweig (Germany)
Tel: +49 531 596-2524
Fax: +49 531 596-2599
Mail: quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de
Web: http://www.ti.bund.de
Das Johann Heinrich von Thünen-Institut, Bundesforschungsinstitut für Ländliche Räume, Wald und Fischerei – kurz: Thünen-Institut –
besteht aus 15 Fachinstituten, die in den Bereichen Ökonomie, Ökologie und Technologie forschen und die Politik beraten.
Quentin Schorpp, M.Sc.
Thünen Institute of Biodiversity
Bundesallee 50
38116 Braunschweig (Germany)
Tel: +49 531 596-2524
Fax: +49 531 596-2599
Mail: quentin.schorpp at ti.bund.de
Web: http://www.ti.bund.de
The Johann Heinrich von Thünen Institute, Federal Research Institute for Rural Areas, Forestry and Fisheries – Thünen Institute in brief –
consists of 15 specialized institutes that carry out research and provide policy advice in the fields of economy, ecology and technology.
[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
More information about the R-sig-mixed-models
mailing list