[R-sig-ME] within subjects, 3 conditions, 3 lines

[Stanislav Aggerwal]

Thanks Thierry!

Stan

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:16 PM, ONKELINX, Thierry <Thierry.ONKELINX at inbo.be
> wrote:

> Dear Stan,
>
> Please keep the mailing in cc.  You use rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1) as the
> random intercept. However rnorm() will be evaluate again in a1, a2, ..., a6
> and thus yielding different values of the random intercept in a1, a2, ...,
> a6. You want
>
> Rf <- rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1)
> a1<- rep(1+ rf,each=5)  #inta=1
> a2<- rep(1 + rf,each=5)  #intb-inta=2-1=1
>
> Note that is more clear to define the fixed, random effect and noise
> separately and add those components in a separate step.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Thierry
>
> ir. Thierry Onkelinx
> Instituut voor natuur- en bosonderzoek / Research Institute for Nature and
> Forest
> team Biometrie & Kwaliteitszorg / team Biometrics & Quality Assurance
> Kliniekstraat 25
> 1070 Anderlecht
> Belgium
> + 32 2 525 02 51
> + 32 54 43 61 85
> Thierry.Onkelinx at inbo.be
> www.inbo.be
>
> To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more
> than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say
> what the experiment died of.
> ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher
>
> The plural of anecdote is not data.
> ~ Roger Brinner
>
> The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not
> ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.
> ~ John Tukey
>
> Van: Stanislav Aggerwal [mailto:stan.aggerwal at gmail.com]
> Verzonden: donderdag 22 januari 2015 12:25
> Aan: ONKELINX, Thierry
> Onderwerp: Re: [R-sig-ME] within subjects, 3 conditions, 3 lines
>
> Thanks Thierry for your help. Could I get some clarification please?
>
>
> You get the right answer for the wrong question. Because you have a bug in
> the code that simulates the data. You added a second noise term instead of
> a random intercept. Hint: set all parameters not related to the random
> intercept to 0 in a1 to a6. Then a1 to a6 should be equal.
>
> There are 30*3 (subjects * conditions) random intercepts. Also 30 random
> slopes. There are 6 params because there are 3 conditions: (slope and
> intercept)*3
>
> a1-a6 have the population values: 1, 1, 2, 3, -1, -2
> Then each subject has a1-a6 values that randomly vary about these
> population values.
> It is the model I meant, and it describes my data.
> Are you saying I implemented it wrong? I don't understand how.
>
> a1<- rep(1+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5)  #inta=1
> a2<- rep(1+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5)  #intb-inta=2-1=1
> a3<- rep(2+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5)  #intc-inta=3-1=2
> a4<- rep(3+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5)  #slopea=3
> a5<- rep(-1+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5) #slopeb-slopea
> a6<- rep(-2+rnorm(nsubj,mean=0,sd=.1),each=5) #slopec-slopea
>
> y[cond=="a"]<-a1    + a4*x[cond=="a"]
> y[cond=="b"]<-a1+a2 + (a4+a5)*x[cond=="b"]
> y[cond=="c"]<-a1+a3 + (a4+a6)*x[cond=="c"]
>
> Then I add errors. For each subject the data are not perfectly described
> by a line, due to measurement error. If I did not add this, the only source
> of noise in the model is due to the variation in slopes and intercepts
> between subjects.
> Are you saying I should eliminate these measurement errors?
> This is the model I intend:
> For each subject in each condition:
> y = int + slope*x + error
> each subject has 3 lines (for a, b, c) with params a1-a6
>
> #autocorrelated errors
> for(i in 1:nsubj)
>   {
>   y[subj==i]<-y[subj==i] +
> as.numeric(filter(rnorm(5*3,mean=0,sd=.5),filter=0.5,method="recursive"))
>   }
>
> If you look at the plot I think it looks correct.
> Thanks very much!
> Cheers
> Stan
>
> Disclaimer<https://www.inbo.be/nl/disclaimer-mailberichten-van-het-inbo>
>

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