[R-sig-ME] taking in account results of a gmml in despite, of error warning about memory?

Tue Nov 29 23:40:41 CET 2011

I should say I know U want random effects in there, just wondering if the
model runs without them?

Chris Howden B.Sc. (Hons) GStat.
Founding Partner
Evidence Based Strategic Development, IP Commercialisation and Innovation,
Data Analysis, Modelling and Training
(mobile) 0410 689 945
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chris at trickysolutions.com.au

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-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Howden [mailto:chris at trickysolutions.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 9:31 AM
To: 'r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org'
Cc: 'Thierry.ONKELINX at inbo.be'
Subject: RE: Re: [R-sig-ME] taking in account results of a gmml in
despite, of error warning about memory?

Will it run if u remove the random effects?

Chris Howden B.Sc. (Hons) GStat.
Founding Partner
Evidence Based Strategic Development, IP Commercialisation and Innovation,
Data Analysis, Modelling and Training
(mobile) 0410 689 945
(fax) +612 4782 9023
chris at trickysolutions.com.au

Disclaimer: The information in this email and any attachments to it are
confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are
not the named or intended recipient, please delete this communication and
contact us immediately. Please note you are not authorised to copy, use or
disclose this communication or any attachments without our consent.
Although this email has been checked by anti-virus software, there is a
risk that email messages may be corrupted or infected by viruses or other
interferences. No responsibility is accepted for such interference. Unless
expressly stated, the views of the writer are not those of the company.
Tricky Solutions always does our best to provide accurate forecasts and
analyses based on the data supplied, however it is possible that some
important predictors were not included in the data sent to us. Information
provided by us should not be solely relied upon when making decisions and
clients should use their own judgement.

-----Original Message-----
From: glenda mendieta [mailto:glendamendieta at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011 8:31 AM
Cc: chris at trickysolutions.com.au; Thierry.ONKELINX at inbo.be
Subject: Re: Re: [R-sig-ME] taking in account results of a gmml in
despite, of error warning about memory?

Hi to everyone,
thanks very much to Chris, Thierry and Ben for your help, I really
appreciated the feedback, here the follow up if you or anyone else were
interested:

*Chris*, I did try what u proposed, but instead of 4061 the error came
up to 4095. When came to a smaller subset or removing interaction terms,
or fixed effects it didn't run either (always showed the same error).
Neither when only including RE, apparently this set up is impossible/to
detailed to run.

*Thierry*, the pretty big covariance matrix is definitively an issue
here, but the problem is that I indeed have different values of
abundance of each epiphyte species (spp) ocurring/growing on each tree
in each census and those are temporally correlated. I have set it up
as:(1|tree/spp), which is species nested in each tree, but isn't that
telling me that species occurring in one tree are not correlated to each
other in time?, which wouldn't be the case my system (please see that I
describe the system below).

*Ben*:
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ben Bolker <bbolker at gmail.com>
> To: r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
> Subject: Re: [R-sig-ME] taking in account results of a gmml in despite
> 	of	error warning about memory?
> Message-ID: <loom.20111128T173451-444 at post.gmane.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> glenda mendieta <glendamendieta at ...> writes:
>
>> I have being trying to fit a glmm on binary and poisson data and when I
>> run this model, with poisson data, the error below shows up. But still
>> gives me results.
>
>   Be very careful.  It probably means that the results are left over
> from some previous run that you tried that did work.  An Error
> results should *not* give any result.  Try re-running in a clean
> R session, with just the minimal stuff you need loaded (see below).
>
True, an error doesn't give a result.
>> Does this means that those are only partial results
>> and shouldn't be taking into account, because the model didn't run
fully?
>>
>> >  glmmab.FMv<-glmer(abundance~c.census*avail.surface*abundance.prev
>> +(0+spp|tree),
>> data=db.e_St, family=poisson(link=log))
>
>   Your random effect specification is not sensible (I think): it asks
for an
> estimate of the variation of the species effect across trees, which
> is more or less impossible because every tree belongs only to a single
> species.  Did you mean (1|spp/tree) or (1|spp)+(1|tree) ?
>
The data is longitudinal and consists on values of abundance (counts) of
89 vascular epiphyte species growing on different individuals of the
same species of tree (~113 individuals) in a span of 10 years (the data
was collected by means of 5 censuses, inspecting each tree and following
the fate of all epiphyte individuals). See below str(data).

My aim was to know the rate of change in abundance of species in time
and whether availability of surface plays a role in those changes (never
mind "abundance.prev" term).
That specification of RE is far more detailed than what I am looking
for, if I did understand you correctly when I assume that the pertain
specification would be estimating a separate variance of trees for each
level of species?.
I thought I was both including the variation of species across trees and
controlling for their temporal correlation while using "trees", since
those where inspected in each census. I have run models as you specified
above: nested, as well as crossed, but I wasn't sure whether they
depicted the set up of the data. Specially because with the nested model
I thought the temporal correlation among species wasn't specified and
then the crossed model shows a more than double-fold value of AIC than
of the nested one (although both use up the same DF's).

>> I am using the latest version of R and R studio. As I have seen before
>> that some complicated models don't run at all if I had already many
>> other models as objects in the workspace, I did run this one with the
>> minimum use of memory (just the database as an object). I also read
that
>> R is suppose to do not have memory problems any more, but I don't
really
>> know how to expand the use of memory by R on my pc.
>
>    Take a look at the R for Windows FAQ entries on memory use.
>    Can you give the results of sessionInfo()?  If you can, you
> may need to switch to a 64-bit OS.

 > sessionInfo()
R version 2.13.2 (2011-09-30)
Platform: x86_64-pc-mingw32/x64 (64-bit)
>
>>  For what I observed
>> with mem.limits() it appears unlimited (NA), but then if I type
>> mem.limit(), 4061 shows up. Does that mean that I can not run those
>> models in my pc at al?.
>> Here, some more info in the data:
>>
>> Number of obs: 23407, groups:tree,89
>
>   This does not seem like a particularly huge dataset, so I'm
> a bit surprised you're running into trouble (with the exception
> of the weird RE specification ...) are your predictor variables
> all continuous?
>
In the case above, census is a factor, avail.surface is continuous. The
other variable never mind. I could also set time as a continuous
variable, but as I see it that wouldn't give me the rate of change.

>>
>> Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this,
>>
>> Glenda Mendieta-Leiva
>> PhD candidate
>> University of Oldenburg

'data.frame':	36935 obs. of  8 variables:
  $ census        : Factor w/ 5 levels "1999-03-01","2002-07-01",..: 1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ...
  $ tree          : Factor w/ 113 levels "35357","35373",..: 1 1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 ...
  $ spp           : Factor w/ 89 levels "AECTIL","ANAANG",..: 1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 ...
  $ abundance     : int  0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ...
  $ abs.pres      : Factor w/ 2 levels "0","1": 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ...
  $ avail.surface : num  4.44 4.44 4.44 4.44 4.44 ...
  $ c.census      : num  10651 10651 10651 10651 10651 .

Thanks again,

Glenda Mendieta-Leiva