[R-sig-ME] quasi-binomial family in lme4

John Maindonald john.maindonald at anu.edu.au
Wed Nov 10 09:50:50 CET 2010

I wonder if you have compared the results that you quote 
with the result you get with observation level random effects
in a poisson model. 

As I see it, use of observation level random effects should, 
unless there is evidence that a multiplicative effect on the 
scale of the response is a better fit, replace use of the quasi- 
models in glm() as well as in generalised linear mixed models.

John Maindonald             email: john.maindonald at anu.edu.au
phone : +61 2 (6125)3473    fax  : +61 2(6125)5549
Centre for Mathematics & Its Applications, Room 1194,
John Dedman Mathematical Sciences Building (Building 27)
Australian National University, Canberra ACT 0200.

On 10/11/2010, at 6:39 PM, Gosselin Frederic wrote:

> Hi Florian,
> a different perpsective on the quasi-likelihood debate - that comes out sporadically on this list:
> (i) I globally agree with the previous repliers that a fully probabilistic solution looks better - at least aesthetically - than a quasi-likelihood;
> (ii) however, as I have already mentioned on the list (cf. below), earlier versions of lme4 give much more sensible results than the latest versions:
> http://markmail.org/message/s4abxhhdacqjkunm
> This is why in the following papers:
> Elek Z., Dauffy-Richard & Gosselin F., 2010, Carabid species responses to hybrid poplar plantation in floodplains in France, Forest Ecology and Management, 260, 9, p. 1446-1455.
> and
> Vuidot A., Paillet Y., Archaux F. & Gosselin F. (In Press) Influence of tree characteristics and forest management on tree microhabitats in France, Biological Conservation.
> we used version the R version 2.5.1 and the associated lme4 version (here with quasi-poisson, not quasi-bionomial).
> Hope this helps.
> Sincerely,
> Frédéric Gosselin 
> Engineer & Researcher (PhD) in Forest Ecology 
> Cemagref 
> Domaine des Barres 
> F-45290 Nogent sur Vernisson 
> France 
> http://www.cemagref.fr/les-contacts/les-pages-personnelles-professionnelles/gosselin-frederic/english-short-scientific-cv
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