[R-sig-ME] Fwd: same old question - lme4 and p-values

[Simon Blomberg]

On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 19:05 -0700, David Henderson wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> > For all practical purposes, a CI is just the Bayesian credible  
> > interval that one gets with some suitable "non-informative prior".   
> > Why not then be specific about the prior, and go with the Bayesian  
> > credible interval?  (There is an issue whether such a prior can  
> > always be found.  Am right in judging this no practical consequence?)
> 
> 
> What?  Could you explain this a little more?  There is nothing  
> Bayesian about a classical (i.e. not Bayesian credible set or highest  
> posterior density, or whatever terminology you prefer) CI.  The  
> interpretation is completely different, and the assumptions used in  
> deriving the interval are also different.  Even though the interval  
> created when using a noninformative prior is similar to a classical  
> CI, they are not the same entity.
> 
> Now, while i agree with the arguments about p-values and their  
> validity, there is one aspect missing from this discussion.  When  
> creating a general use package like lme4, we are trying to create  
> software that enables statisticians and researchers to perform the  
> statistical analyses they need and interpret the results in ways that  
> HELP them get published. 

Well, that's only one reason for R's existence.

>  While I admire Doug for "drawing a line in  
> the sand" in regard to the use of p-values in published research, this  
> is counter to HELPING the researcher publish their results. 
>  There has  
> to be a better way to further your point in the community than FORCING  
> your point upon them.  Education of the next generation of researchers  
> and journal editors is admittedly slow, but a much more community  
> friendly way of getting your point used in practice.


If you don't like Doug's software, don't use it! Or since the code is
open source, hack it so it does what YOU want. Nobody is forcing
anything on you.

> 
> Just my $0.02...

Mine too. :-)

> 
> Dave H
> --
> David Henderson, Ph.D.
> Director of Community
> REvolution Computing
> 1100 Dexter Avenue North, Suite 250
> 206-577-4778 x3203
> DNADave at Revolution-Computing.Com
> http://www.revolution-computing.com
> 
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-- 
Simon Blomberg, BSc (Hons), PhD, MAppStat. 
Lecturer and Consultant Statistician 
Faculty of Biological and Chemical Sciences 
The University of Queensland 
St. Lucia Queensland 4072 
Australia
Room 320 Goddard Building (8)
T: +61 7 3365 2506
http://www.uq.edu.au/~uqsblomb
email: S.Blomberg1_at_uq.edu.au

Policies:
1.  I will NOT analyse your data for you.
2.  Your deadline is your problem.

The combination of some data and an aching desire for 
an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can 
be extracted from a given body of data. - John Tukey.