>....it's quite embarrassing that people create such horrible output despite
the fact that R has >much better graphics devices...

Simon, with great respect paid to your unbelievably hard and ongoing work, I
think this notion that the users should just know better ways of using R is
a big part of the problem here. R as currently figured is essentially the
biggest scavenger hunt in the history of man tied to an essentially
un-searchable application name.
How many packages in CRAN even have so much as a poorly documented vignette?
In my experience, many of those few existing vignettes won't even work
properly as coded, aren't actually explained in any event, and generally
include at least one or two deprecated commands.

These better graphics devices may well exist, but the vast majority of R is
largely undocumented beyond this sort of monkey-see, monkey-do (and you're
lucky when/if you get that much; yes, I understand you can dig in and look
at the underlying code...that's precisely not the point).
The end result is that most users never know about more than a fractional
percent of available features; and those bits of knowledge they probably
happened upon whilst trying to solve very specific problems that sent them
wandering through sites such as the one linked. Thus, these solutions seem
like manna from heaven and not at all something that's sub-par or of low
relative quality.

No, I don't have any good solutions to offer, really, as most of these
complaints land squarely on the doorsteps of the package maintaners (rather
than yours). But it is frustrating that the conversations don't even seem to
be happening; instead, users are criticized for struggling towards ad hoc
solutions to problems they shouldn't be having anyway.






On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Simon Urbanek
<simon.urbanek@r-project.org>wrote:

>
> On Mar 18, 2009, at 8:44 , David Winsemius wrote:
>
>  And it now works fine for me as well. When I was running some of the
>> graphics examples in the thread yesterday on recreating a JMP graphic, I
>> noticed that the behavior had persisted in other plots, but that it later
>> reverted to normal clipping behavior. Today rerunning that code does not
>> reproduce the problem. I have revisited the webpage ;
>> http://addictedtor.free.fr/graphiques/RGraphGallery.php?graph=127
>> ... and repasted the code and the off-graph plotting does not return.
>>
>>
> Oh my - the quality of the graphs on that website is horrible ... it's
> quite embarrassing that people create such horrible output despite the fact
> that R has much better graphics devices ...
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
>
>
>  --
>> David Winsemius
>>
>> Someplace during the
>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Denis Chabot wrote:
>>
>>  Strange, it worked fine for me. At least it did after a fresh start of
>>> R, with no additional package installed.
>>>
>>> Denis
>>> R version 2.8.1 Patched (2009-01-19 r47650)
>>> i386-apple-darwin9.6.0
>>>
>>> locale:
>>> fr_CA.UTF-8/fr_CA.UTF-8/C/C/fr_CA.UTF-8/fr_CA.UTF-8
>>>
>>> attached base packages:
>>> [1] stats     graphics  grDevices utils     datasets  methods   base
>>>
>>> Le 09-03-18 à 07:00, r-sig-mac-request@stat.math.ethz.ch a écrit :
>>>
>>>  Message: 1
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:38:20 -0400
>>>> From: David Winsemius <dwinsemius@comcast.net>
>>>> Subject: [R-SIG-Mac] qqline plots outside plot area
>>>> To: R-SIG-Mac Mailing List <r-sig-mac@stat.math.ethz.ch>
>>>> Message-ID: <083A0C62-5967-4F02-9DBE-9812ED684AA8@comcast.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>>>
>>>> I just executed the example in the R graph gallery for qqplot and it
>>>> includes a call to qqline. It plots the line beyond the plotting
>>>> region, unlike the illustration and unlike the behavior of any of the
>>>> other "line" functions in my (limited) experience. the example on the
>>>> help page for qqplot/qqline does the same. It does not appear that I
>>>> have masked qqline with another package version.
>>>>
>>>> y <- rt(200, df = 5)
>>>> qqnorm(y); qqline(y, col = 2)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Winsemius, MD
>>>> Heritage Laboratories
>>>> West Hartford, CT
>>>>
>>>>  sessionInfo()
>>>>>
>>>> R version 2.8.1 Patched (2009-01-19 r47650)
>>>> i386-apple-darwin9.6.0
>>>>
>>>> locale:
>>>> en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/C/C/en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8
>>>>
>>>> attached base packages:
>>>> [1] splines   stats     graphics  grDevices utils     datasets
>>>> methods   base
>>>>
>>>> other attached packages:
>>>> [1] caret_4.08      UsingR_0.1-12   codetools_0.2-1 lattice_0.17-20
>>>> Design_2.1-2    Hmisc_3.5-2     survival_2.34-1
>>>>
>>>> loaded via a namespace (and not attached):
>>>> [1] cluster_1.11.12 grid_2.8.1      tools_2.8.1
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>>> R-SIG-Mac@stat.math.ethz.ch
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>>
>>
>> David Winsemius, MD
>> Heritage Laboratories
>> West Hartford, CT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>> R-SIG-Mac@stat.math.ethz.ch
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> R-SIG-Mac mailing list
> R-SIG-Mac@stat.math.ethz.ch
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>

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