[R-SIG-Mac] Data editor

[Byron Ellis]

So, is this an offer to contribute an improved data editor to the OS X
GUI? We could certainly use one, it would be much appreciated.

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:44 AM, John Walker <john.s.walker at uchsc.edu> wrote:
> Thank you for the responses to my email. I'd like to further the
>  discussion a little because I think it may be productive.
>
>  I'll take major points from the responses and deal with them one by one
>  although not necessarily in order.
>
>  With regard to my colleague's willingness to learn a command line
>  program. She is an extremely intelligent person and has learned Latex to
>  typeset her documents - no question she is able to learn. But she
>  requires some evidence that the program is worth learning. To her mind
>  and to mine, simple things should be simple to do and complex things
>  made easier by any software. My point here is that entering in data via
>  the data editor failed. Whether or not that is the best way or the right
>  way is irrelevant. R offers an option to enter small data sets via an
>  editor - the edit function. In the X11 interface and the Windows
>  interface to the edit function, the functionality is present. In the mac
>  editor it is not. I agree that the GUI interface to the command line is
>  nice and functional and the programmers are to be applauded. The fact
>  remains that the data editor in the Mac interface is inadequate.  When
>  someone tries a program for the first time and a simple function fails
>  then there is no incentive to go further.
>
>
>  As regards the best way to enter data.  I think statisticians are used
>  to investigators coming to them with very precious post processed data.
>  Consequently data entry is handled using programs that emphasize data
>  integrity, security and organisation. Hence the use of Excel (sic!!!) to
>  handle data for export to R.
>
>  In reality in lab work, data abounds. The scientist  performs ad hoc
>  experiments daily and tries to see what is going on. Sometimes, as in
>  this case, he/she wants to find out if a rough <preliminary> experiment
>  is showing a difference. For the scientist, the ability to enter data
>  quickly and see if the difference they think they are seeing is real
>  <is> important. When the experiments have settled into a routine and
>  data collection becomes part of a protocol, the data should and does go
>  into a data entry program ( a database with data entry front end or a
>  spreadsheet). That is the data the statistician sees and has been
>  collected with great care and expense, but it is not the only kind of
>  data the scientist deals with
>
>  Yes the t-test could be done on a calculator, but few scientists in the
>  biomedical sciences actually use a calculator for a t-test. They all use
>  a computer based stats program. To my mind, if they do it in R, two
>  things are accomplished; a broader adoption of R and the preliminary
>  data are in R to be added to and if difficulties arise to be handed to
>  an analyst who also uses R. (Please don't go off topic and tell me they
>  should have seen a statistician before starting; a.) I know the reasons
>  and b.) it isn't always necessary)
>
>  Mathematical statisticians regard data as holy. Scientists who collect
>  the data know it to be dirty, unkempt and often scribbled on pieces of
>  paper or on the margins of notebooks -especially when the experiments
>  are just getting started. Not all data are important. Many experiments
>  simply confirm that there is no difference due to a treatment. The
>  ability to quickly enter small data sets and check to see if there
>  really is a difference is important to investigators. Fisher knew that,
>  so did Student/Gosset hence the development of small sample statistics.
>  I'm suggesting that if 'R' wants to address the needs of scientists, a
>  method for entry of small data sets is important. The command line is
>  fine. I use it and I am happy with it. But R <offers> a data editor.
>  Those who want to use it should be able to. This does not mean a full
>  blown spreadsheet interface. I agree that would be stupid. All I am
>  suggesting is that the Mac data editor be functional. The Unix and
>  Windows ones already are.
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  John Walker
>  Assistant Professor of Cardiology
>  Department of Medicine
>  University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
>  4200 E. Ninth Ave B130
>  BRB Rm 351
>  Denver CO 80262
>
>  ph 303 315 0103
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  R-SIG-Mac mailing list
>  R-SIG-Mac at stat.math.ethz.ch
>  https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
>



-- 
Byron Ellis (byron.ellis at gmail.com)
"Oook" -- The Librarian