[R-pkg-devel] [FWD] [CRAN-pretest-archived] CRAN submission JuliaConnectoR 0.5.0

Stefan Lenz IMBI |enz @end|ng |rom |mb|@un|-|re|burg@de
Thu Apr 9 18:09:18 CEST 2020 

When I execute the example, I also get a strange behaviour:

 library(namespace)
 ns <- makeNamespace("myNamespace")
 assign("test",7, env=ns)
 ls(env=ns) 

When I now want to invoke any help for a function, I get a warning message:

 > ?loadNamespace
 Warning message:
 In find.package(if (is.null(package)) loadedNamespaces() else package, :
 there is no package called ‘myNamespace’

Also sessionInfo doesn't work any more:

 > sessionInfo()
 Error in if (pkgpath == "") { : argument is of length zero

I don't think this is a good sign....
Stefan

 
----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
Von: Joris Meys [Joris.Meys using ugent.be]
An: Stefan Lenz IMBI [lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de], r-package-devel using r-project.org
Datum: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:37:09 +0000
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> you need the function makeNamespace() to create the environment as a namespace. 
> Look at the examples in the help files, I found them rather instructive. I also 
> hope someone else chimes in to shed some light on whether or not that approach 
> would be acceptable.
> 
> 
> Joris Meys
> Statistician
> T +32 9 264 61 79
> 
> Department Data Analysis and Mathematical Modelling
> 
> Campus Coupure, Block A 1st floor 110.050, Coupure links 653, B-9000 Ghent, 
> Belgium
> T administration office +32 9 264 59 32
> 
> www.ugent.be
> 
> e-maildisclaimer
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: Stefan Lenz IMBI <lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de>
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:30 PM
> To: Joris Meys; Jeff Newmiller; r-package-devel using r-project.org; Duncan 
> Murdoch
> Subject: Re: [R-pkg-devel] [FWD] [CRAN-pretest-archived] CRAN submission 
> JuliaConnectoR 0.5.0
> 
> Hi!
> Thanks for pointing to the package "namespace".
> I experimented with it but I couldn't really figure out how it is supposed to work:
> 
> The following code leads to strange errors that I don't understand:
> 
> > nse <- list2env(list(data="x", asdf = 2))
> > namespace::registerNamespace(name = "NewNamespace", env = nse)
> > NewNamespace::asdf
> Error in asNamespace(ns) : not a namespace
> 
> It would really be interesting if someone could comment on whether the namespace 
> approach is feasible, how it is supposed to work, and whether/how it would be 
> better than using attach.
> Greetings!
> Stefan
> 
> 
> ----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
> Von: Joris Meys [Joris.Meys using ugent.be]
> An: Stefan Lenz IMBI [lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de], Jeff Newmiller 
> [jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us], r-package-devel using r-project.org, Duncan 
> Murdoch [murdoch.duncan using gmail.com]
> Datum: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:59:23 +0000
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>> Hi Stefan,
>>
>> first of all, thank you for taking the time and effort to link Julia and R. That
>> said, I would strongly encourage you to go for a reticulate-like approach.
>> There's a good reason for that. Once you start mixing languages, you really want
>> to have some indication what code is ran in what language. Especially since I can
>> imagine at one point there'll be a Julia function masking an R function of the same
>> name, and that is going to cause a world of hurt and confusion.
>>
>> If you don't like environments, you can try to use namespace functionality.
>> There's the "namespace" package that allows you to create one, and some internal
>> namespace functions are visible (eg namespaceExport() from base). That's
>> going to be the closest to mimicking R packages, but it's beyond my knowledge to
>> know how feasible this approach actually is. I hope someone else chimes in,
>> especially if this is dangerous for other reasons I overlooked.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Joris
>>
>> Joris Meys
>> Statistician
>> T +32 9 264 61 79
>>
>> Department Data Analysis and Mathematical Modelling
>>
>> Campus Coupure, Block A 1st floor 110.050, Coupure links 653, B-9000 Ghent,
>> Belgium
>> T administration office +32 9 264 59 32
>>
>> www.ugent.be
>>
>> e-maildisclaimer
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: R-package-devel <r-package-devel-bounces using r-project.org> on behalf
>> of Stefan Lenz IMBI <lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:41 AM
>> To: Jeff Newmiller; r-package-devel using r-project.org; Duncan Murdoch
>> Subject: Re: [R-pkg-devel] [FWD] [CRAN-pretest-archived] CRAN submission
>> JuliaConnectoR 0.5.0
>>
>> It is important for me to get my package into CRAN.
>> I haven't gotten any answer from the CRAN maintainers. I already tried to submit a
>> version of the package before some months and haven't gotten any reply then.
>> The replies you gave me (thanks to all engaged in the discussion) were mixed.
>> I still think that the library-like import is a good feature, but if it is not
>> possible to get this package on CRAN with it, I will change it with returning an
>> environment like reticulate.
>> My question now is:
>> So what would be the process how to proceed?
>> Is there anybody who can make a decision in such cases?
>> Or do I make this decision myself after I lost hope that it will be accepted the way
>> it is now?
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> ----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
>> Von: Jeff Newmiller [jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us]
>> An: Stefan Lenz IMBI [lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de],
>> r-package-devel using r-project.org, Duncan Murdoch
>> [murdoch.duncan using gmail.com]
>> Datum: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 09:52:52 -0700
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> I did not say "interfere"... I said "problems with consistency". I don't think
>>> your wholesale import of functions without corresponding help pages is
>>> consistent with the normal use of R, which will make reading R code written with
>>> this mechanism in place a painful source of trouble for help forums.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, if the code is prefaced with an environment name then there will
>>> be no expectation that a help page should exist on the part of someone reading that
>>> code for the first time. (It will be no less obscure, but at least it won't be
>>> misleading.)
>>>
>>> On April 7, 2020 9:40:02 AM PDT, Stefan Lenz IMBI <lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>>Thank you very much for your comment.
>>>>Could you elaborate how you think that it could interfere with the help
>>>>system?
>>>>I haven't yet connected the Julia help with the R help, as the R help
>>>>system is quite complex and RStudio handles it again differently. So
>>>>it's simply like the functions were declared on the command line. They
>>>>have no help.
>>>>A simply way to print the help for a Julia function, e.g. the function
>>>>"first", is to call
>>>> juliaEval("@doc first")
>>>>This then simply prints the output on the command line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
>>>>Von: Jeff Newmiller [jdnewmil using dcn.davis.ca.us]
>>>>An: r-package-devel using r-project.org, Duncan Murdoch
>>>>[murdoch.duncan using gmail.com], Stefan Lenz IMBI
>>>>[lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de]
>>>>Datum: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 10:51:53 -0700
>>>>-------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One could take the position that the library and require functions
>>>>were a mistake
>>>>> to begin with and that all contributed packages should be accessed
>>>>using ::... or
>>>>> one could recognize that these functions are an expected feature of R
>>>>at this
>>>>> point and then it is not defensible to ban the proposed approach of
>>>>importing
>>>>> names as Stefan wants to. I don't think it is fair to require this
>>>>higher level of
>>>>> specificity just because it involves use of attach.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, another feature of R packages is the integrated help
>>>>system...
>>>>> importing Julia functions wholesale may lead to problems with
>>>>consistency in
>>>>> navigating the help files. IMO it may be justifiable to ban this
>>>>particular
>>>>> syntactic convenience to maintain some separation in the minds of
>>>>users looking
>>>>> for help on these new functions, since the syntactic and semantic
>>>>structure of
>>>>> functions from another language may not align well with normal R
>>>>functions. But I
>>>>> am not familiar with Julia or Stefan's package or the support it
>>>>brings in this
>>>>> area... I just disagree with banning a "library" lookalike function
>>>>"just
>>>>> because" it happens to involve attach.
>>>>>
>>>>> On April 6, 2020 8:40:12 AM PDT, Duncan Murdoch
>>>><murdoch.duncan using gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>On 06/04/2020 11:25 a.m., Stefan Lenz IMBI wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, as I wrote earlier, I would like to imitate the behaviour of
>>>>>>loading an R package
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> juliaUsing("SomeJuliaPackage") # exports myJuliaFunction
>>>>>>> myJuliaFunction()
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> like R:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> library("MyRPackage") # exports myRFunction
>>>>>>> myRFunction()
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could return an environment, such that the call becomes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> attach(juliaUsing("SomeJuliaPackage"))
>>>>>>> myJuliaFunction()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wouldn't use it that way. I'd write it as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sjp <- juliaUsing("SomeJuliaPackage")
>>>>>> sjp$myJuliaFunction()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is similar to the advice to use pkg::foo() rather than
>>>>>>library(pkg)
>>>>>>followed by plain foo() in the code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Duncan Murdoch
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But calling juliaUsing(), as it is now, takes care that if a
>>>>package
>>>>>>is imported a second time,
>>>>>>> the first data base is removed via detach().
>>>>>>> This way, users do not have to worry about calling juliaUsing()
>>>>>>mutliple times in a script, same
>>>>>>> as R users don't have to worry about calling library() multiple
>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>> If you call the code with attach() multiple times and do not
>>>>detach,
>>>>>>you get your screen cluttered with
>>>>>>> warnings "xxx is masked by xxx".
>>>>>>> So I would say it would decrease user-friendliness to return an
>>>>>>environment.
>>>>>>> I also want to make explicit, that the call to attach
>>>>>>> occurs only once in my code, after creating the environment:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> envName <- paste0("JuliaConnectoR:", absoluteModulePath)
>>>>>>> if (envName %in% search()) {
>>>>>>> detach(envName, character.only = TRUE)
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>> attach(funenv, name = envName)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This code is only called by juliaImport() and juliaUsing(), which
>>>>>>aren't called by any other function of
>>>>>>> the package
>>>>>>> and are supposed to be called directly by the user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------ursprüngliche Nachricht-----------------
>>>>>>> Von: Duncan Murdoch [murdoch.duncan using gmail.com]
>>>>>>> An: Dirk Eddelbuettel [edd using debian.org], Ben Bolker
>>>>>>[bbolker using gmail.com]
>>>>>>> Kopie: List r-package-devel [r-package-devel using r-project.org]
>>>>>>> Datum: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 11:00:09 -0400
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 06/04/2020 10:49 a.m., Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6 April 2020 at 08:38, Ben Bolker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> | Just reply to the CRAN maintainers and explain this situation.
>>>>>>It¨s
>>>>>>>>> | slightly buried, but the e-mail you received does say:
>>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>> | > If you are fairly certain the rejection is a false positive,
>>>>>>please reply-all to this
>>>>>>>>> | > message and explain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> True, but this misses the "Letter of the law" versus the "Spirit
>>>>of
>>>>>>the law".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It might be worth mentioning that use of attach() is seen, to
>>>>find
>>>>>>one poor
>>>>>>>>> analogy, pretty much like use of global variables these days.
>>>>"Just
>>>>>>because
>>>>>>>>> you could does not mean you should".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See e.g. one of the first google hits for 'r do not use attach'
>>>>>>here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10067680/why-is-it-not-advisable-to-use-attach-in-r-and-what-should-i-use-instead
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have a strong opinion on this: the proposed use seems to
>>>>be
>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>> worse than library() or require(). Those are fine for users to
>>>>use,
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>> are discouraged in a package. If the attach() never happens
>>>>without
>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>> explicit request from the user (and that's what it sounds like),
>>>>I'd
>>>>>>say
>>>>>>>> it's probably okay.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, there is an easy workaround: just return the environment
>>>>>>>> without attaching it. Then the user has the choice of attaching
>>>>it,
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>> using it as a prefix when they call the functions in it. So it's
>>>>not
>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>> though this will destroy the utility of the package if Stefan
>>>>isn't
>>>>>>>> allowed to call attach().
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duncan Murdoch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>>>>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>>>R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>>>>>>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Stefan Lenz
>>
>> Institut für Medizinische Biometrie und Statistik
>> Medizinische Fakultät / Universitätsklinikum Freiburg
>>
>> Postadresse: Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, 79104 Freiburg
>>
>> Tel.: 0761/203-6670
>> E-Mail: lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> R-package-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>>
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Stefan Lenz
> 
> Institut für Medizinische Biometrie und Statistik
> Medizinische Fakultät / Universitätsklinikum Freiburg
> 
> Postadresse: Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, 79104 Freiburg
> 
> Tel.: 0761/203-6670
> E-Mail: lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de
> 


-- 

Stefan Lenz

Institut für Medizinische Biometrie und Statistik
Medizinische Fakultät / Universitätsklinikum Freiburg

Postadresse: Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, 79104 Freiburg

Tel.: 0761/203-6670
E-Mail: lenz using imbi.uni-freiburg.de

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