[R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Henrik Bengtsson
hb at biostat.ucsf.edu
Sun Nov 30 16:03:36 CET 2014
My reply on "raw" email headers was regarding a suggestion on having Gmail
and similar clients automatically to add an easy-to-spot unsubscribe
link/button. No one here suggested the user him-/herself should read those
headers.
Henrik
On Nov 30, 2014 6:16 AM, "John Kane" <jrkrideau at inbox.com> wrote:
> The problem seems to be that the people who have a desire to unsubscrbe
> and post here are not the most sophisticated of users and expecting them to
> know how to track down the raw email or even to realise the message at the
> bottom of the post is meant to convey much of anything is not likely to
> occur to them.
>
> I have not had any need to look for the raw email and, while it only took
> a few seconds to find it in my email reader, one has to know it exists
> before one can look for it.
>
> I probably have not looked at a raw email for 3-5 years. Why would I?
>
> The chances of a newbie, possibly without much "computer" experience vs
> user of MS Office and E-mail even being aware such a thing exists is slig\t
> (snowballl in ... ?)
>
> A slight change to the footer seems like a good idea.
>
> John Kane
> Kingston ON Canada
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: info at aghmed.fsnet.co.uk
> > Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:02:12 +0000
> > To: jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu, hb at biostat.ucsf.edu
> > Subject: Re: [R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Dear John
> >
> > Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email certainly
> > has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:
> >> The headers listed below as being part of the ״raw" email messages are
> >> not seen, at least not in the messages I receive.
> >> John
> >>
> >>> John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D.
> >>> Professor of Medicine
> >>> Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics
> >>> University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
> >> Geriatric Medicine
> >>> Baltimore VA Medical Center
> >>> 10 North Greene Street
> >>> GRECC (BT/18/GR)
> >>> Baltimore, MD 21201-1524
> >>> (Phone) 410-605-7119
> >>> (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller
> >>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >>>> To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying
> >> to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in
> >> anyone's interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would
> >> probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web
> >> page does have that word on it, though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting,
> >> though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the
> >> password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse.
> >> However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it
> >> may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
> >>>
> >>> FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the
> >>> following in the header:
> >>>
> >>> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1
> >>> Precedence: list
> >>> List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org>
> >>> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>,
> >>> <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/>
> >>> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org>
> >>> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help>
> >>> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>,
> >>> <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe>
> >>>
> >>> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field
> >>> [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be
> >>> enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed
> >>> a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in
> >>> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly
> >>> "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically
> >>> use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM
> >>> key signature" being required
> >>>
> >> [
> http://blog.mailchimp.com/gmails-new-unsubscribe-link-and-feedback-loop/].
> >>> So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which
> >>> are handled by Mailman).
> >>>
> >>> My $.02
> >>>
> >>> /Henrik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
> >> Live...
> >>>> DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
> >> Go...
> >>>> Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
> >> Playing
> >>>> Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
> >>>> /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
> >> rocks...1k
> >>>>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
> >> <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
> >>>>>> I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <SNIP>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
> >>>>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <SNIP>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
> >>>>>> <jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
> >>>>> mail
> >>>>>>>> program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as
> >>>>>>>> such. The link given, i.e.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>>>>
> >>>>> takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
> >> (password
> >>>>>
> >>>>> protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your
> >>>>> r-help subscription, including unsubscribing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one
> >>>>> directly to this second page, but:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link
> >> to
> >>>>> the primary help page).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
> >> about
> >>>>> such matters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people
> >>>>> who
> >>>>> are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe
> >>>>> facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't
> >> be
> >>>>> R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
> >> rub
> >>>>> together to deal with R.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rolf Turner
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >>
> >> Confidentiality Statement:
> >> This email message, including any attachments, is for ...{{dropped:22}}
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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