consider p as random effect with 5 levels, what is difference between these two models? > p5.random.p <- lmer(Y ~p+(1|p),data=p5,family=binomial,control=list(usePQL=FALSE,msV=1)) > p5.random.p1 <- lmer(Y ~1+(1|p),data=p5,family=binomial,control=list(usePQL=FALSE,msV=1)) thanks, Aimin Yan