[R] decide between polynomial vs ordered factor model (lme)
dmbates at gmail.com
Mon Jan 9 16:59:24 CET 2006
On 1/9/06, Leo Gürtler <leog at anicca-vijja.de> wrote:
> Dear alltogether,
> two lme's, the data are available at:
> explanations of the data:
> nachw = post hox knowledge tests over 6 measure time points (= equally
> zeitn = time points (n = 6)
> subgr = small learning groups (n = 28)
> gru = 4 different groups = treatment factor
> levels: time (=zeitn) (n=6) within subject (n=4) within smallgroups
> (=gru) (n = 28), i.e. n = 4 * 28 = 112 persons and 112 * 6 = 672 data points
> fitlme7 <- lme(nachw ~ I(zeitn-3.5) + I((zeitn-3.5)^2) +
> I((zeitn-3.5)^3) + I((zeitn-3.5)^4)*gru, random = list(subgr = ~ 1,
> subject = ~ zeitn), data = hlm3)
> fit5 <- lme(nachw ~ ordered(I(zeitn-3.5))*gru, random = list(subgr =
> ~ 1, subject = ~ zeitn), data = hlm3)
> anova( update(fit5, method="ML"), update(fitlme7, method="ML") )
> > anova( update(fit5, method="ML"), update(fitlme7, method="ML") )
> Model df AIC BIC logLik Test
> update(fit5, method = "ML") 1 29 2535.821 2666.619 -1238.911
> update(fitlme7, method = "ML") 2 16 2529.719 2601.883 -1248.860 1 vs 2
> L.Ratio p-value
> update(fit5, method = "ML")
> update(fitlme7, method = "ML") 19.89766 0.0978
> shows that both are ~ equal, although I know about the uncertainty of ML
> tests with lme(). Both models show that the ^2 and the ^4 terms are
> important parts of the model.
> My question is:
> - Is it legitimate to choose a model based on these outputs according to
> theoretical considerations instead of statistical tests that not really
> show a superiority of one model over the other one?
> - Is there another criterium I've overlooked to decide which model can be
> clearly preferred?
> - The idea behind that is that in the one model (fit5) the second
> contrast of the factor (gru) is statistically significant, although not
> the whole factor in the anova output.
> In the other model, this is not the case.
> Theoretically interesting is of course the significance of the second
> contrast of gru, as it shows a tendency of one treatment being slightly
> superior. I want to choose this model but I am not sure whether this is
> proper action. Both models shows this trend, but only one model clearly
> indicates that this trend bears some empirical meaning.
> Thanks for any suggestions,
The comparisons may be more clearly shown if you create the ordered
factor and a second version of the ordered factor what has the
contrasts set so it produces a 4th order polynomial. That is, set
hlm3$ozeit <- ordered(hlm3$zeitn)
hlm3$ozeit4 <- C(hlm3$ozeit, contr.poly, 4)
then define one model in terms of ozeit and a second model in terms of ozeit4.
I would go further and create a new binary factor from gru that
contrasted level 2 against the other three levels and use that instead
For a model fit by lme I would use the one-argument form of anova to
assess the significance of terms in the fixed effects. (That advice
doesn't hold for models fit by lmer - at least at present.)
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