[R] between-within anova: aov and lme

[William Simpson]

I have 2 questions on ANOVA with 1 between subjects factor and 2 within factors.

1. I am confused on how to do the analysis with aov because I have seen two examples
on the web with different solutions.

a) Jon Baron (http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~baron/rpsych/rpsych.html) does
6.8.5 Example 5: Stevens pp. 468 - 474 (one between, two within)

between: gp
within: drug, dose
aov(effect ~ gp * drug * dose + Error(subj/(dose*drug)), data=Ela.uni)

b) Bill Venables answered a question on R help as follows.

- factor A between subjects
- factors B*C within subjects.

aov(response ~ A*B*C + Error(subject), Kirk)
"An alternative formula would be response ~ A/(B*C) + Error(subject), which
would only change things by grouping together some of the sums of squares."

-------------------------------------------------------
SO: which should I do????
aov(response ~ A*B*C + Error(subject), Kirk)
aov(response ~ A/(B*C) + Error(subject), Kirk)
aov(response ~ A*B*C + Error(subject/(B*C)), Kirk)
--------------------------------------------------------

2. How would I do the analysis in lme()?
Something like
lme(response~A*B*C,random=~1|subject/(B*C))???


Thanks very much for any help!
Bill Simpson