[Rd] Calculation of e^{z^2/2} for a normal deviate z
Martin Maechler
m@ech|er @end|ng |rom @t@t@m@th@ethz@ch
Mon Jun 24 10:37:54 CEST 2019
>>>>> William Dunlap via R-devel
>>>>> on Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:34:47 -0700 writes:
>>>>> William Dunlap via R-devel
>>>>> on Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:34:47 -0700 writes:
> include/Rmath.h declares a set of 'logspace' functions for use at the C
> level. I don't think there are core R functions that call them.
> /* Compute the log of a sum or difference from logs of terms, i.e.,
> *
> * log (exp (logx) + exp (logy))
> * or log (exp (logx) - exp (logy))
> *
> * without causing overflows or throwing away too much accuracy:
> */
> double Rf_logspace_add(double logx, double logy);
> double Rf_logspace_sub(double logx, double logy);
> double Rf_logspace_sum(const double *logx, int nx);
> Bill Dunlap
> TIBCO Software
> wdunlap tibco.com
Yes, indeed, thank you, Bill!
But they *have* been in use by core R functions for a long time
in pgamma, pbeta and related functions.
[and I have had changes in *hyper.c where logspace_add() is used too,
for several years now (since 2015) but I no longer know which
concrete accuracy problem that addresses, so have not yet committed it]
Martin Maechler
ETH Zurich and R Core Team
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 1:40 AM Ben Bolker <bbolker using gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with many the sentiments about the wisdom of computing very
>> small p-values (although the example below may win some kind of a prize:
>> I've seen people talking about p-values of the order of 10^(-2000), but
>> never 10^(-(10^8)) !). That said, there are a several tricks for
>> getting more reasonable sums of very small probabilities. The first is
>> to scale the p-values by dividing the *largest* of the probabilities,
>> then do the (p/sum(p)) computation, then multiply the result (I'm sure
>> this is described/documented somewhere). More generally, there are
>> methods for computing sums on the log scale, e.g.
>>
>>
>> https://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy-0.14.0/reference/generated/scipy.misc.logsumexp.html
>>
>> I don't know where this has been implemented in the R ecosystem, but
>> this sort of computation is the basis of the "Brobdingnag" package for
>> operating on very large ("Brobdingnagian") and very small
>> ("Lilliputian") numbers.
>>
>>
>> On 2019-06-21 6:58 p.m., jing hua zhao wrote:
>> > Hi Peter, Rui, Chrstophe and Gabriel,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your inputs -- the use of qnorm(., log=TRUE) is a good point
>> in line with pnorm with which we devised log(p) as
>> >
>> > log(2) + pnorm(-abs(z), lower.tail = TRUE, log.p = TRUE)
>> >
>> > that could do really really well for large z compared to Rmpfr. Maybe I
>> am asking too much since
>> >
>> > z <-20000
>> >> Rmpfr::format(2*pnorm(mpfr(-abs(z),100),lower.tail=TRUE,log.p=FALSE))
>> > [1] "1.660579603192917090365313727164e-86858901"
>> >
>> > already gives a rarely seen small p value. I gather I also need a
>> multiple precision exp() and their sum since exp(z^2/2) is also a Bayes
>> Factor so I get log(x_i )/sum_i log(x_i) instead. To this point, I am
>> obliged to clarify, see
>> https://statgen.github.io/gwas-credible-sets/method/locuszoom-credible-sets.pdf
>> .
>> >
>> > I agree many feel geneticists go to far with small p values which I
>> would have difficulty to argue againston the other hand it is also expected
>> to see these in a non-genetic context. For instance the Framingham study
>> was established in 1948 just got $34m for six years on phenotypewide
>> association which we would be interesting to see.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> >
>> > Jing Hua
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: peter dalgaard <pdalgd using gmail.com>
>> > Sent: 21 June 2019 16:24
>> > To: jing hua zhao
>> > Cc: Rui Barradas; r-devel using r-project.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Rd] Calculation of e^{z^2/2} for a normal deviate z
>> >
>> > You may want to look into using the log option to qnorm
>> >
>> > e.g., in round figures:
>> >
>> >> log(1e-300)
>> > [1] -690.7755
>> >> qnorm(-691, log=TRUE)
>> > [1] -37.05315
>> >> exp(37^2/2)
>> > [1] 1.881797e+297
>> >> exp(-37^2/2)
>> > [1] 5.314068e-298
>> >
>> > Notice that floating point representation cuts out at 1e+/-308 or so. If
>> you want to go outside that range, you may need explicit manipulation of
>> the log values. qnorm() itself seems quite happy with much smaller values:
>> >
>> >> qnorm(-5000, log=TRUE)
>> > [1] -99.94475
>> >
>> > -pd
>> >
>> >> On 21 Jun 2019, at 17:11 , jing hua zhao <jinghuazhao using hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Rui,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for your quick reply -- this allows me to see the bottom of
>> this. I was hoping we could have a handle of those p in genmoics such as
>> 1e-300 or smaller.
>> >>
>> >> Best wishes,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jing Hua
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Rui Barradas <ruipbarradas using sapo.pt>
>> >> Sent: 21 June 2019 15:03
>> >> To: jing hua zhao; r-devel using r-project.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Rd] Calculation of e^{z^2/2} for a normal deviate z
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> Well, try it:
>> >>
>> >> p <- .Machine$double.eps^seq(0.5, 1, by = 0.05)
>> >> z <- qnorm(p/2)
>> >>
>> >> pnorm(z)
>> >> # [1] 7.450581e-09 1.228888e-09 2.026908e-10 3.343152e-11 5.514145e-12
>> >> # [6] 9.094947e-13 1.500107e-13 2.474254e-14 4.080996e-15 6.731134e-16
>> >> #[11] 1.110223e-16
>> >> p/2
>> >> # [1] 7.450581e-09 1.228888e-09 2.026908e-10 3.343152e-11 5.514145e-12
>> >> # [6] 9.094947e-13 1.500107e-13 2.474254e-14 4.080996e-15 6.731134e-16
>> >> #[11] 1.110223e-16
>> >>
>> >> exp(z*z/2)
>> >> # [1] 9.184907e+06 5.301421e+07 3.073154e+08 1.787931e+09 1.043417e+10
>> >> # [6] 6.105491e+10 3.580873e+11 2.104460e+12 1.239008e+13 7.306423e+13
>> >> #[11] 4.314798e+14
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> p is the smallest possible such that 1 + p != 1 and I couldn't find
>> >> anything to worry about.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> R version 3.6.0 (2019-04-26)
>> >> Platform: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu (64-bit)
>> >> Running under: Ubuntu 19.04
>> >>
>> >> Matrix products: default
>> >> BLAS: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/blas/libblas.so.3.8.0
>> >> LAPACK: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/lapack/liblapack.so.3.8.0
>> >>
>> >> locale:
>> >> [1] LC_CTYPE=pt_PT.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=C
>> >> [3] LC_TIME=pt_PT.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=pt_PT.UTF-8
>> >> [5] LC_MONETARY=pt_PT.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=pt_PT.UTF-8
>> >> [7] LC_PAPER=pt_PT.UTF-8 LC_NAME=C
>> >> [9] LC_ADDRESS=C LC_TELEPHONE=C
>> >> [11] LC_MEASUREMENT=pt_PT.UTF-8 LC_IDENTIFICATION=C
>> >>
>> >> attached base packages:
>> >> [1] stats graphics grDevices utils datasets methods
>> >> [7] base
>> >>
>> >> other attached packages:
>> >>
>> >> [many packages loaded]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hope this helps,
>> >>
>> >> Rui Barradas
>> >>
>> >> �s 15:24 de 21/06/19, jing hua zhao escreveu:
>> >>> Dear R-developers,
>> >>>
>> >>> I am keen to calculate exp(z*z/2) with z=qnorm(p/2) and p is very
>> small. I wonder if anyone has experience with this?
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks very much in advance,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Jing Hua
>> >>>
>> >>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________
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>> >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>> >>>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> R-devel using r-project.org mailing list
>> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peter Dalgaard, Professor,
>> > Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School
>> > Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark
>> > Phone: (+45)38153501
>> > Office: A 4.23
>> > Email: pd.mes using cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd using gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
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>> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>> >
>>
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