[Rd] Help Documentation

Mon Mar 29 16:24:19 CEST 2004

hi andy:  actually, I read it 3 times, just not the day when I wanted to 
do some stats.  I had not memorized the contents.  I also looked at prof 
brian ripley's book.  I even overlooked the fact that quit() I am not 
suggesting making them learner pages, just pages that are slightly more 
suitable for learners.

but I think your point is well taken: not much enthusiasm for what I 
would want to add: a tiny bit more redundancy.

regards, /iaw

Liaw, Andy wrote:
> Ivo,
> 
> Let me address your points in reverse order:
> 
> 1. There is a `wishlist' category for bug reports, which I guess you've
> overlooked.
> 
> 2. There is also a `Contributed Documentation' section on the R web site,
> which you can submit your contribution.  As well, there are a few
> introductory level documents there already that you might be interested.
> 
> 3. I must repectfully disagree about adding/changing the help pages just so
> beginners or novices can learn R better.  If the help pages are your sole
> source for learning R, I can only say that you could do a lot better.  The
> help pages are supposed to be complete and accurate documentation of the
> topics they cover.  The ones in R do a extremely good job at that, and, I
> must say, are much more user-friendly than most *nix man pages.  
> 
> If you had familiarize yourself with just the official newbie doc, `An
> Introduction to R', that would have solved most, if not all, of your
> questions.  If you have not done that, there will be little enthusiasm to
> what you have to propose.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 
> 
>>From: ivo welch
>>
>>hi henrik (all):  A better solution would be to have levels: 
>>set.help(level="beginner"), which then provides expanded explanations.
>>
>>However, I do not think this is necessary: For the most part, 
>>the online 
>>R docs are great.  It is not more detailed explanations that 
>>beginners 
>>crave.  My primary wishes arise as I stumble onto a need, and 
>>then wish 
>>for a few more examples of different usage, a few more 
>>cross-references 
>>to other functions, and the rare additional help page (exit, delete 
>>(explains data frame row and col del), insert (same thing)).  
>>The first 
>>two are usually literally one-liners, and unlikely to clutter 
>>up much.  
>>The latter is pretty easy, too.
>>
>>If considered helpful by the R developers, I would try to learn Rd to 
>>submit doc changes.  Alas, my feeling is that the reception would be 
>>pretty cold ("not needed = redundant = no").  Is there someone "in 
>>charge of" docs that I can ask whether this is in principle welcome?
>>
>>Would it be useful to add to the R Bug Report submission web page a 
>>pulldown field that classifies suggestions, one of which being 
>>"documentation enhancement", so that Prof Ripley won't complain about 
>>having to read these?  Maybe another pull-down field that classifies 
>>error severity?
>>
>>regards, /iaw
>>
>>Henrik Bengtsson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dear all, 
>>>
>>>without taking sides here, I see two major advantage of keeping the
>>>redundancy in any documentation minimal. First, it makes the
>>>maintanance of the documentation as simple as possible. This in turn,
>>>minimizes the risk for getting inconsistent documentation in new
>>>updates. Otherwise, someone has to have a really good overview and
>>>know where to update when, say, one default argument is 
>>
>>updated (or we
>>
>>>have to live with incorrect documentation).
>>>
>>>One possible solution to a documentation for beginners is to have a
>>>separate package just for the documentation. In that package you can
>>>document ?exit etc . Load the package and help.search("exit") will
>>>find "anything" regard exitting. To get started with this you have to
>>>know how to write Rd documentation (very similar to LaTeX). You'll
>>>find details in the help; type help.start(). 
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Henrik
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: r-devel-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch 
>>>>[mailto:r-devel-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Gabor 
>>>>Grothendieck
>>>>Sent: den 29 mars 2004 01:44
>>>>To: ivo.welch at yale.edu
>>>>Cc: R-bugs at biostat.ku.dk; r-devel at stat.math.ethz.ch
>>>>Subject: RE: [Rd] Help Documentation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think many people share your view and are aghast at the 
>>>>reception that some well-intentioned posts receive.  There 
>>>>have been past discussions on this and many people feel the
>>>>way you and I do.  
>>>>
>>>>Just to head off another round, let me acknowledge that 
>>>>there appears to be multiple viewpoints and although hard 
>>>>to believe by myself, there actually is a contingent that 
>>>>views what I see as insulting responses as appropriate.
>>>>
>>>>---
>>>>From:   ivo welch <ivo.welch at yale.edu>
>>>>
>>>>ladies and gents:
>>>>
>>>>I have posted a couple of simple questions recently. As often
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>happens 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>to novices, the information was there somewhere, even in front of my
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>eyes, and I just did not see it. I looked in docs that seemed 
>>>>to me to 
>>>>be the right place for this particular information, but did 
>>>>not find it. 
>>>>There is no question: mea culpa, and everything is documented 
>>>>somewhere 
>>>>in R. (Worst comes to worst, it is documented in the source.)
>>>>
>>>>But here comes my complaint: I tried to help by documenting 
>>>>where I got 
>>>>lost, and by suggesting simple one-liners for the 
>>>>documentation, which 
>>>>would provide additional cross-references to what I was looking for.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>The cost of adding additional brief sentences to the help must be 
>>>>relatively small, and the help to stuck novices may be 
>>>>considerable in 
>>>>reducing the learning curve. For my specific examples, I suggested a
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>reference to q() in ?exit, and a "select= -c(v1,v2)" to ?subset.
>>>>
>>>>Clearly, the information is redundant. (Of course, in a sense, all 
>>>>documentation is redundant.) The goal of good documentation should
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>be 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>to help novice users who do not know the answer. The goal 
>>>>should not be 
>>>>minimum redundancy in the help files. Being fairly new to R, I see 
>>>>difficulties where Brian Ripley and other experts and developers no 
>>>>longer do. I bet that if I wonder about the answers, I am more than 
>>>>likely not alone. In fact, I think it would really make sense to 
>>>>improve the docs by studying where novices get stuck.
>>>>
>>>>I was told by Brian to stop sending such suggestions, in order not
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>to 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>clutter the R bug report list. OK, I can save my time; I just 
>>>>wanted to 
>>>>help. But, for others' sake, please reconsider the policy of not 
>>>>gearing the internal R documentation for novices like myself.
>>>>
>>>>I will butt out here.
>>>>
>>>>regards,
>>>>
>>>>/ivo
>>>>
>>>>PS: Incidentally, the R help seems a little schizophrenic. For 
>>>>example, Brian Ripley is the most helpful source for learning R
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>(both 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>books and posts), and I am rather grateful for it. I just do not 
>>>>understand why, at the same time, he seems to be annoyed 
>>>>while fielding 
>>>>questions of the r-help post-list. He is not the only individual who
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>likes to help, but grudgingly so...
>>>>
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>R-devel at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list 
>>>>https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailma> n/listinfo/r-devel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>R-devel at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
>>https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
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