A new option to assign " <- " to some other key is fine.

The present behavior should not be changed.
The default in S and R modes should be ess-smart-underscore and the
ess-toggle-underscore must continue to work for people whose .emacs
currently
want it off.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Vitalie Spinu <spinuvit@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I tend to agree with Jack, it's inconsistent across the modes. And
> unless you are using ESS only for R, it's a problem. This is why I am
> not using it myself. In any case I think smart-underscore should be
> smart-assignment instead, with an ability to be assigned it to any
> key. Once assigner to a key "x", pressing "x" twice should do whatever
> action was hijacked. I would probably like to assign it to "<". Jack's
> C-= idea is not bad ad all as that key is free, easy to type, and has
> intuitive meaning.
>
> What others think? May be we should put it to a vote.
>
> Vitalie.
>
> >>>> Rainer M Krug <r.m.krug@gmail.com>
>  >>>> on Wed, 4 Apr 2012 20:12:00 +0200 wrote:
>
>  > Hi
>
>  > On 04/04/12 19:52, Jack Tanner wrote:
>  >> Premise: the smart-underscore behavior in ESS is problematic because
>
>  > I would not agree here.
>
>  >>
>  >> 1) it's inconsistent across modes, as described in my post a couple of
> weeks ago and repeated
>  >> below for convenience
>
>  > OK - I can not comment to bugs-mode as I have never used bugs, but it
> is consistent in R modes.
>
>  >>
>  >> 2) it's confusing to novices, as evidenced by the fact that it's a FAQ
>
>  > Well - there are many "problematic" things to remember for a novice -
> underscore as a very
>  > convenient one is probably a minor issue.
>
>  >>
>  >> 3) it will be even more confusing to novices over time, because
> underscore as assignment
>  >> operator was phased out in R a long time ago
>
>  > Sorry - I never heard about "underscore as assignment operator" in R.
> It must have been a long
>  > time ago.
>
>  >>
>  >> 4) it requires two keystrokes of underscore to get an actual underscore
>
>  > True - but only one to get "<-" ...
>
>  >>
>  >> Proposal: ESS should emulate another R editor on this point, namely
> StatET. The
>
>  > Well - ESS runs in emacs, and emacs has different shortcuts then the
> other editors - but I see you
>  > point here.
>
>  >> behavior is as follows:
>  >>
>  >> 1) typing = gets you =
>  >>
>  >> 2) typing _ gets you _
>  >>
>  >> 3) typing <- gets you <-
>  >>
>  >> 4) (this is the magic one) typing Ctrl+= gets you <-
>  >>
>  >> The main argument 'pro' is that 1-3 are not at all confusing to
> novices, and 4 is a
>  >> discoverable feature, i.e., a reward for advanced users. Additionally,
> this would be consistent
>  >> across S, R, BUGS, and JAGS, and would not violate their syntax,
> unlike the current behavior
>  >> (explained in my older note, below).
>  >>
>  >> The current smart-underscore could be retained as-is for those who
> want it but turned off by
>  >> default in future versions.
>
>  > As long as the default behaviour stays as it is, it would be OK.
>
>  > I actually see the "_ as <-" as a huge plus of ESS.
>
>  > Cheers,
>
>  > Rainer
>
>  >>
>  >> -- my older email, repeated for reference --
>  >>
>  >> 1. In ESS[BUGS] mode, underscore is bound to ess-bugs-hot-arrow, which
> is definitely wrong,
>  >> because it doesn't let me create variables like foo_bar.
>  >>
>  >> 2. I'd like it if I could use smart-underscore as in ESS[S] mode, but
> if I do
>  >>
>  >> (define-key ess-bugs-mode-map (kbd "_") 'ess-smart-underscore)
>  >>
>  >> then there's no smart-underscore behavior, just a plain underscore.
>  >>
>  >> ______________________________________________ ESS-help@r-project.orgmailing list
>  >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/ess-help
>
> ______________________________________________
> ESS-help@r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/ess-help
>

	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

